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Brothers and Sisters.. I need some help..
All,
My volunteer department is facing something that I believe is pretty wide spread across the volunteer fire service field and I need some help in figuring out how to deal with it.. We have a firefighter who has been with the department for close to 50 years. He is in his early 70's. He is a past Chief and sitting Board of Directors member. He has made quite an impact on the department. His contributions to the department is something that will live LONG after he is gone. He is a fantastic gentleman and is willing to help in ANY way possible. He is as much a grand-father to everyone as he is a member of the department.
Now, having said that. Here is the delima. He has become what I consider a "liability". He is an unsafe driver of apparatus, he is unable to keep up with changing communications (radios, pagers, computers software, etc), he is unable to fight fire, unable to operate apparatus pumps, he has lived in our community for 70 years and is still unable to locate an address, he is a state certified "First Responder" and his patient care is slipping to the point that I'd not allow him to care for my family and I doubt that he could do his skills if he was unassisted. There are many more issues, but I don't want to bore you with more of the same sort of issues. I approached the rest of our officers and mentioned creating a "Lifetime Member" status for him and more or less just allow him to assist with station work, traffic control, support functions on a fire scene, etc. When this was mentioned, it started a firestorm of hell in the meeting.
SO this is where I need everyone's help. How on Earth do I work to remedy the situation when no one else has the testicular fortitude to address the problem?
My volunteer department is facing something that I believe is pretty wide spread across the volunteer fire service field and I need some help in figuring out how to deal with it.. We have a firefighter who has been with the department for close to 50 years. He is in his early 70's. He is a past Chief and sitting Board of Directors member. He has made quite an impact on the department. His contributions to the department is something that will live LONG after he is gone. He is a fantastic gentleman and is willing to help in ANY way possible. He is as much a grand-father to everyone as he is a member of the department.
Now, having said that. Here is the delima. He has become what I consider a "liability". He is an unsafe driver of apparatus, he is unable to keep up with changing communications (radios, pagers, computers software, etc), he is unable to fight fire, unable to operate apparatus pumps, he has lived in our community for 70 years and is still unable to locate an address, he is a state certified "First Responder" and his patient care is slipping to the point that I'd not allow him to care for my family and I doubt that he could do his skills if he was unassisted. There are many more issues, but I don't want to bore you with more of the same sort of issues. I approached the rest of our officers and mentioned creating a "Lifetime Member" status for him and more or less just allow him to assist with station work, traffic control, support functions on a fire scene, etc. When this was mentioned, it started a firestorm of hell in the meeting.
SO this is where I need everyone's help. How on Earth do I work to remedy the situation when no one else has the testicular fortitude to address the problem?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ed on
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Chief I would disagree. All of the things that I'm reading is really helping me formulate a new approach to the entire situation. Maybe if we develope SOPs for fitness requirements and firefighting skills along with the required EMS skills than we can phase out not only the aged folks, but the young incompetant. This way we're not singling ANYONE out.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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The issue can be handled with efficiency, diplomacy and with dignity.
It's easy for us to sit here and say "get rid of his ass", but then, we haven't put our 50 years in, have we?
Treat others as you would want to be treated.
You can take his pager and gear without taking his pride.
AND, don't forget; no disrespect, but we are getting ONE side of the story.
I wouldn't rush to judgment.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Keegan Allen on
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We have young people on our fire department that have lived in this town and they are the same way. People that have lived in our community since they were born can't find addresses. These people can drive a fire truck to the scene pretty much. They cant run a pump to save their lifes and these people cant run advancing technology and everything else. We have a couple of old people on my department that are in their late 60's and they are one of the best people on the department so i don't think that the guy needs to leave or you guys need to tell him that he pretty much needs to leave. This sounds like you have something againist him.
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Permalink Reply by Jared Lelaidier on
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Good response ART
How do you tell a FF to quit when he has been doing what he has lived for all of his life. On the other hand my dept. has these issues as well.
thank god I young its gonna be hard!
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Permalink Reply by Palmyra Chief Donaghey on
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the man is a wealth of knowledge....50 years!!!....talk to him, there are many things your brother is still capable of doing. if there is a saftey issue make your chief aware and document it, these issues are why he gets an extra 0 at the end of his paycheck.
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Permalink Reply by Tom Frey on
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I have only been with jcfd for one year and our retired chief has just done the same thing except he is not quit as old. I also believe the idea of life time member status is a wonderful idea for those that aren't fit to drive apparatus or run the pump but can still feel like said individual is apart of what made their existence worth while. I hate to compare ex-chiefs that retired and became volunteers in their town but if they become as yours has then you pretty much can tell them that the expected duties are those of a probi. That of cooking, cleaning, and making sure that the necessities are taken care of. Or you could make a new position called "Probi Instructional Officer". Yeah that was kinda stupid to suggest but it is out there!
Tom
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I think being able to make the "unpopular" decision or doing the "right thing" is the sign of a good/ competent officer. Based on what you have said there are legitimate safety concerns that conflict with respect for that individual and popular opionions. I feel your pain buddy, just to relate, when I was promoted I was assigned to the same company that I rode the back step on. We can debate the pro's and con's of that, but unfortunately the first person that I had to put on charges was a guy that I rode as firefigher with for years. While there was no doubt what he did was wrong, I felt like a huge POS, the guy got street time and I think that I felt worse about it than he did. Looking back we both know that it was the right thing to do and quite a few years later were still good friends, although I do still buy him at least one drink at dept. functions.
Art had some great ideas, celebrate his contributions and accomplishments to your dept, and find or create a position that he can fill that lets him step aside with his pride and respect while still being a valued member of your dept. I work in an urban dept., but also volleyed in a very rural dept for a few years and I have nothing but respect for what those guys do. I was also very amazed at how they keep their older members very involved department business, such as fund raising, apparatus commities, maintaince commities etc. Give this guy something to do that is important in your organization that isnt operations oriented, it will address his personal needs and the morale and safety concerns that you have for your dept.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Delaney on
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Are you on my department and I dont know it? We have the same issue. While it is hard to say"Thanks for the 50 years but we are all set", the safety of our members and the public is our NUMBER ONE PRIORITY!! Maybe take him aside as to not embarrass him and have a little talk. He may not realize he has become a liability.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Remember guys we are all gonna get old and we all wanna be able to come over the firehouse and feel welcomed and respected after you put all those years in and I am sorry I thought all depts had a Life Membership for retired members they can be active if they are fit and up to it they just don't get to vote at a department meeting. I have a Chief that is 86 and he looks like he is 60 and is a world of knowledge and knows firefighting inside and out and is very well respected thruout the state of PA . For retied members we in PA have a organization that is called the Mohawks but there is a waiting list to get in it and you have to be retired. For driving apparatus you should get with the state police and have a course setup for all drivers to take that states they are fit and able to drive and are responsible enough as firefighters especially when you have a shortage of manpower through out the state. Which makes things difficult. Just remember we will all get old and things change in the fire service so be understanding and sometimes it takes you to be a bigger man especially to always make everyone fit in in some capacity and that takes leadership. Its not always easy but we should always work together so everything works more smoothly.I wish you the best you sound like you got a tough situation.I know you will do the right thing. Stay Safe. Hughie The 57 House
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Permalink Reply by Tony Leonard,Jr. on
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I agree with most of whats all ready been said,but sometimes the heat over rules the mind in most cases.Use caution and handle the situation with kid gloves.And the "Life Member" status is not a bad thing anyway,if you get 20 years active with our dept.,You are pretty much automatticly granted life member status.But the choice remains with that firefighter to stay active or go "Exempt".Thinking about it,keep trying ,but ultimetly the desision may lye with your chiefs or executive board for the ultimate desision.But realize they may only beable to influence said firefighter,not make the desision for him.Hopefully he realizes whats happening and desides to step back before (God forbid)tradgide strikes when everyone lest expects it.
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Permalink Reply by Chief 29 on
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Speaking from experience with this issue no matter who or how it is brought up to him it should be done with the utmost dignity. This is not a matter of age remember that. From the way you have explained it seems to me that he is slipping mentally and that can happen to any of us young and old a like! If I were slipping I know for a fact that a few of my brothers would sit me down and bring it to my attention with out the embarrassment of having SOP'S changed or added just to end my career. If presented correctly he will be receptive and appreciate the concern that what he obviously considers his family has for him.
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Permalink Reply by Asst. Chief GARY L. NEWMAN on
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The advice Art Goodrich gave you sounds like a winner. I am a 62 year old Asst. Chief, director, instructor, and active firefighter who realizes he can't keep up with you young guys but I offer a lot of experience and knowledge to each situation we face. When the time comes that I am a liability I hope someone has the guts to tell me and that I have the good sense and humility to listen. There are many things your member might be able to do to continue. Someone needs to try to explain to him his limitations and hopefully he will make the decision to limit his involvment. Thank you for caring enough for him and your department to take a stand. Good Luck/God Bless
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