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Water. On-board or hydrant?
In one of Chris Naum's threads, there are people talking about getting water into the pump. Some attack immediately with the water on-board, others will always get a line to a hydrant to guarantee water right from the start. With us, the first pumper on-scene will start an attack first, if crew are available (this depends on how many made it for the first truck and what tasks have to be performed) then someone will be dragging a feed line to the nearest hydrant. However, the second pumper is usually right behind the first and will normally run a feed line to the first pumper to add their on-board supply, giving a little time to the hydrant crew. Do any other people do things this way? Feed the second in vehicle's water into the first arriving?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Thanks for the responses all - very interesting. Of course, as many have said, the situation is what defines the method. My own Brigade is urban risk only, so I was thinking of hydrants everywhere! But I know of the non-hydrant operations. Being suburban, we can almost guarantee that a support station pumper is right behind us - a luxury that I appreciate! (Our pumpers usually carry around 1800 litres - 475 US gallons)
I've been involved in more, if you like, rural type operations in the suburbs - we had water fail in the ring main at a school fire, so had to immediately go to a tanker relay to keep water to the pumper in our sector. One tanker attached to the pumper to feed it, the other five relaying between the nearest hydrant to feed the first tanker. As usual, I'll mention that here, a 'tanker' is a firefighting vehicle, not a bulk water carrier. It's usually a 4wd vehicle with a working area on the back (have a look at our new friend Roberts avatar, he's standing next to one of these vehices)
Another question from me. Ben, you mentioned "forward half of a split lay and the 2nd engine can lay the reverse half". This isn't a phrase that we'd use, so can you explain please? I could guess, but guesses are often wrong!
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Tony,
If you have a lay that is either a) too long or b) too convoluted for one engine to complete, you can use a split lay. A split lay consists of one engine laying forward (toward the fire) but wrapping a sign post, tree, or other substantial object instead of a hydrant. The second engine approaches from a different direction, wraps the same sign post/tree/object and makes a reverse lay (away from the fire) to the hydrant. The second engine's hydrant firefighter makes the connection between the two supply lines.
The second engine's driver/operator makes the connection to the hydrant and charges the supply line when the first engine's driver/operator calls for water.
The most common way my department uses split lays is if the fire is substantially down a side street and there is no hydrant at the intersection with the primary street. In that case, the forward half of the split lay goes from the corner, down the side street, and to the fire. The next engine lays the reverse part of the lay down the main street to the closest available hydrant.
Did this answer your question?
Ben
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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We use the water out of the tank right away and then when water supply is set up we fill the tank back up and use our water source water, then if something happens we still got water in the tank to use.
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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We use tank water untill a dump tank is set up then switch over. However we also lay out a 2-1/2 for tankers to hook into and pump off to the engine if there is no room to set up a dump tank. I don't like doing it like this because instead of dumping and going for more water the tankers start to back up and clog the road. We can dump off both sides of our 2 tankers and the backs but some of our mutual aid depts. can only dump out of the back. In an ideal situation you want them to dump and go without much delay. Instead some have to back up to the dump tank and take a little more time.
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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Depends on whats burning and the volume of fire. For the most part the 2nd due engine grabs the plug. In some cases there isnt a hydrent so we resort to tanker/water tender opps.
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Permalink Reply by turk182 on
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We usually use the tank water to start the attack and then they will hook to the hydrant.
We switch over to using the water from the hydrant and cheat open the tank fill lever a little so we can fill the tank back up so we have a reserve incase something happens to the hydrant system.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Nicholson on
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Our department is all rural, no hydrants, only dry hydrants. We roll out with 5500 gals on 1 engine(1000) and 2 tankers (3000 and 1500) for a first alarm.
We use the on board for the initial attack, and try (not SOP) to only deploy 1 line (1 3/4") until we can get the potable tanks on the ground and the draft started. At 125 GPM, 2 lines can eat up 1000 gals. fast....
Depending on the fire, we may simply nurse the engine without using the ponds.
One thing I find when running on the engine tank water is that I am very careful on where I put the water, and how much. I even lower the GPM on the nozzle to try and save water until the engineer can get the draft started.
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Permalink Reply by Childressfirefighter36 on
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Well if it's a structure, both are nescessary, The engine can get there and start spraying water. the pumper can go to the hydrant and connect the hose to the engine, then you have your engine supplied with water. That's what we do in our small town.
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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Just a few scattered stand pipes and dry hydrants here Stephen. Like you we "fight fire and save water" also. TCSS
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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In my area, 1st due Engines will make an attack off of their tanks. 2nd due Engines will assist with water supply and then stretch a 2nd line. If the 1st due Engineer can make his own hydrant he will while his company works from his tank, but for the most part, the 2nd due Engine is seconds to minutes behind the 1st due. It seems to be very dangerous to wait to make a hydrant to begin an attack, but perhaps it is a different scenario at those FD's.
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Our areas do pretty well the same thing.
We see our primary task as to get inside the building - whether for a search or simply to attack the seat of the fire. There could of course be an occasion when we have to rapidly withdraw an internal attack/search crew due to lack of water - we don't send crews in without a hose. Although we always seem to have that second pumper right on our heals, it can't be guaranteed. Nor can we guarantee that the nearest hydrant is working. Nevertheless, we always get the first crew in before we have that hydrant feed.
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