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Permalink Reply by Steve on January 31, 2009 at 9:23pm

There is no reason to do such. Look i know us volunteers run into short crews on daylight but you must send juniors that their education is the most important thing in their lives right now. If it's that bad activate more mutual aid.

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Permalink Reply by flash_fire007 on January 31, 2009 at 9:35pm

Ok don't get me wrong... I've been a Volunteer before, And this country could not do without volunteers... But there is a line to be drawn to prevent or reduce chaos... The number one problem is/was always having numerous POV's sitting around when you needed space to get Emergency Vehicle's on scene. My OLD dept. SOP was you respond to the station where your gear was kept, you bunker out and mount a truck/box whatever type call it was.. as soon as the vehicle was fully staffed 2-4 personnel then it could leave the station.
And yes I started this career as a Junior FF in High School and can proudly say I've been doing it for 22 years now. Having stricter SOP's on this stuff only reduces chances of someone getting injured while responding to a call be it Fire or EMS in their POV. For Example years ago while on a large range fire a volunteer dept we were mutual aiding had their POV's parked along a county road and they were out in trucks fighting fire. well it just so happened the fire shifted directions and was crossing the County Road at their vehicles, Myself and my team did manage to move only 1 car that had the keys left in it but 3 others burnt to a crisp, and yes I know there is only so much a 250 gallon tank can put out from a 3/4 ton brush truck..Anyway to the point... I feel #1 for safety they should respond to the station instead of directly to the call, #2 No One leaves school for any emergency unless the school is on fire, Because Education matters and who knows you might be the next Generation Chief.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Stewart on January 31, 2009 at 9:36pm

As a Country Fire Service volunteer in South Australia during my senior years at high school i was allowed to carry my pager and respond to fire calls if they happened during recess,lunch or study period plus the high school was fully aware of this mainly due to one of the teachers being an SA Ambulance volunteer and my Community Studies teacher being a CFS volunteer as well

However if my main lessons which were English and Tourism in year 11 were after lunch and there was a large scale grass/scrub fire happening i would have to wait till the end of school then go out as relief crew but if the situation was far worse my teacher or teachers would allow me to sign out and respond

Plus having a car licence in my senior years made it easier to respond directly to station and man the appliance

Here in Australia no rural volunteer fire fighters are allowed to have red/blue lights on their vehicles although if people see us driving crazy then hear the station siren sound they know that theres a fire call happening

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Permalink Reply by Olivia Elam on January 31, 2009 at 9:47pm

I am not allowed to leave school or have my pager at school during the school day. Education is very important to my department and anything school related comes first. We also have a curfew concerning how late we can respond on a 'school night'.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Smith on January 31, 2009 at 10:19pm

school is more important yes.. but my dept has only a few of FF available during the day so i got permission from my chief and the school prinicpal to leave for a call

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Permalink Reply by turk182 on January 31, 2009 at 10:49pm

I do not think juniors should be leaving school to go on calls.

As far as lack of manpower during the day that is still no excuse that is why we have mutual aide agreements. If you have manpower issues have another station respond with your department to help out during the day.

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Permalink Reply by Denise Co 29 on January 31, 2009 at 11:20pm

Basically the same in our dept. My son would like to join but is currently failing one class so he is not allowed to join yet. We also have specific times they can run.

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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on January 31, 2009 at 11:31pm

Our Jr's carry pagers just like the rest of us. However when it comes to school they must adhere to the school rules and policy. We require them to maintain a c average or above. Leaving school to come to the station and go on calls is up to their teachers. Their school is just like a persons employment. Its their job to take care of school business.
As to the number of calls again it is up to the school and the teachers. Since the Jr's do much of the things the regular firefighters can do they train and work right along side them. If they have their license they must abide by all the same rules as anyone else. We do not allow lights in the vehicles .

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Permalink Reply by Don Vuletic on January 31, 2009 at 11:33pm

OUR JUNIORS ARE NOT PERMITTED TO LEAVE SCHOOL OR EVEN TO CARRY THIER PAGERS IN SCHOOL. THIER EDUCATION IS THE FIRST AND FOREMOST PRIORITY OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. THEY MUST MAINTAIN A C OR BETTER TO REMAIN IN THE DEPARTMENT AND THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED LIGHTS OR SIRENS UNTIL THE ARE CERTIFIED FIREFIGHTERS AND OFF OF PROBATION. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SURVEY.

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Permalink Reply by Todd on February 1, 2009 at 4:41am

Honestly, some of the answers on here scare me. Answers like these are a big reason I'm glad the state of South Carolina has the restrictions that they do, because I can see some of the supposed "leaders" in the fire service here using them as well. Sadly, there's "leaders" here in SC trying to get those regulations changed. Hopefully the state does the right thing and stands it's ground. Firegrounds are dangerous enough for adults, much less children.


I honestly can't see a legitimate reason why it would be critical for a junior firefighter/explorer/cadet/whatever you want to call them to leave school to answer a call. What task can they do that's such a critical need that the incident couldn't be handled without them? They can't fight interior fire. I pray to God you aren't allowing them to operate apparatus. They sure as heck better not be used for command functions (although reading some other posts around here concerning 18 year old officers one can't be too sure) Not to mention the fact that if manpower is already limited you are going to limit it that much more because hopefully you do have constant adult supervision over these children.

If your department has to rely on junior firefighters to accomplish tasks on the fire ground maybe it's time you take a long hard look at your recruitment/retention efforts and seek out some mutual and/or automatic aid from neighboring departments. In previous discussions of this very issue on other forums I've found that the majority of the time the departments that say that they simply can't function without the juniors on the scene are also the ones who are hesitant to get over the petty little "kingdom" issues and sign meaningful mutual aid agreements with other departments. Perhaps if they'd let go of a little of that ego and admit that there is a problem they could get proper staffing on their firegrounds without having to look to children as saviors. As it stands if you have to use children to make up critical staffing on a fire ground you are nothing more than a bucket brigade that arrives on expensive equipment.

The common argument I've heard on this is "How are they supposed to learn if they don't get to go on calls?" I would hope that in 2009 we've come to the realization that the fire service is a serious business and fire grounds aren't the place for basic training. Nothing you can teach a junior on the fire ground can't be replicated on the training ground.


Now, before I'm labeled as a "Junior Firefighter Hater" let me tell you that I spent four years as a Junior prior to turning 18. At first we were allowed to respond to scenes in POVs, but because the leadership in my department realized that not only did they have to worry about mitigating the emergency but they had to watch over kids it was cut out. From that point on we trained on drill nights, and when we hung around the station. All in all I learned more in the drills and impromptu trainings than on the fire ground because the senior members had more time to explain what was going on and we had a lot more "hands on" time. It certainly didn't curtail the development of the group of juniors I proudly served with....out of the six when I joined all of us has spent time as a career firefighter, five of the six have either served or are serving as company officers, one is a career chief officer, and another is a police chief (and volunteer officer). I strongly feel that Junior Firefighter programs (this includes Explorers/Cadets/etc) have a place in the fire service and are important to the future of the fire service. I do not, however, feel that fire grounds are the place for children, and I strongly feel that allowing children to leave school for fire calls is the wrong approach we need to be taking.

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Permalink Reply by Ken on February 1, 2009 at 8:10am

I started in the fire service at the ripe old age of 15. I had a head start on some due to the face I spent most of my young life hanging at the fire station. I was issued my 3/4 boots, coat, plastic hat, and went out and bought my own gloves. Three days later I was cutting a vent hole on a 2 family duplex (wearing scba). Yeah riding tail board was the standard practice. I am happy that the fire service has evolved and progressed to the point where Jr ffers are protected from certain emergencies that do effect them. I have to say that I have a 17 yo son that started when he was 15 and it was hard holding him back. In the last two yrs he has completed FFer 1-2, emt, hazmat, and can operate some of our apparatus better then guys that have been on for years. Jr firefighters have a roll on fire ground, If you can free up 5,6,7 jr firefighters from school for a couple of hours at a large fire scene, those Jr firefighters can be at the SCBA station changing bottles, doing rehab, etc that frees up actual firefighters to get the job done.

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Permalink Reply by Keegan Allen on February 10, 2009 at 10:54pm

Here in Iowa it depends on the fire department and what the school thinks about you leaving. When you leave for a call you really are the schools responsibly still. Our department got the junior program going to let the whole 3 full members get a break during the day if there was a bad fire. We are aloud to leave school at anytime only if our pagers go off. Here are some times we are not aloud to go: When taking state test, any test, type of call, and what your grades are like. Here you must carry a C average to stay on the department. The students that leave don't have to be a certain age. We go on car accidents, structure fires, alarms, and everything. The only calls we are not aloud to go on are medical calls. The students are not aloud to have red/blue lights in there cars. It depends on the teacher wether they let you make up the work. The school makes it excused. We have our chief sign a paper stating that we were at a call not out running around. So i think yes every junior FF should be aloud to leave school......

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