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charged advance up 5 stories
We had a drill Tuesday where 3 man teams had to advance a 3" charged hose up to the 5th floor of our burn tower.
No well. No windows. No rope. Just 3 men and a charged line.
We did this sans SCBA, but today we're doing it again, with our packs, on air.
Needless to say, it is a sonofayouknowwhat.
We tried rolling the hose, and that helped, but are there any tips/tricks? I know a big part of it is just plain hard work, but I also want to work SMART, you know what I mean?
If nobody has any ideas, I'd like to know what you think about this one. I don't like it because it eventually spreads out the three guys too far apart, but anyway, here it is. The three FFs start off close to each other, muscling the charged line together up the firs flight and around the first corner. When the line starts to constrict around the corner, the last FF drops back and pulls up more slack at the point of constriction. The other two guys continue together until once again, in another flight or two, the hose constricts around a corner, then the number two guy falls back and pulls up more slack (the number three guy is now a floor below him, helping to push the slack HE created UP to the second guy).
So basically my idea starts off with three FFs together, but as they advance, they peel off the back as necessary to pull up hose.
I know, this is not the ideal way to advance hose. Ideally, if there were no well or window options, I would uncharge the lines and all three guys would go up together with the lines on their shoulders. But it's not my drill, and I have to play by the rules. Any ideas are appreciated.
No well. No windows. No rope. Just 3 men and a charged line.
We did this sans SCBA, but today we're doing it again, with our packs, on air.
Needless to say, it is a sonofayouknowwhat.
We tried rolling the hose, and that helped, but are there any tips/tricks? I know a big part of it is just plain hard work, but I also want to work SMART, you know what I mean?
If nobody has any ideas, I'd like to know what you think about this one. I don't like it because it eventually spreads out the three guys too far apart, but anyway, here it is. The three FFs start off close to each other, muscling the charged line together up the firs flight and around the first corner. When the line starts to constrict around the corner, the last FF drops back and pulls up more slack at the point of constriction. The other two guys continue together until once again, in another flight or two, the hose constricts around a corner, then the number two guy falls back and pulls up more slack (the number three guy is now a floor below him, helping to push the slack HE created UP to the second guy).
So basically my idea starts off with three FFs together, but as they advance, they peel off the back as necessary to pull up hose.
I know, this is not the ideal way to advance hose. Ideally, if there were no well or window options, I would uncharge the lines and all three guys would go up together with the lines on their shoulders. But it's not my drill, and I have to play by the rules. Any ideas are appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Sounds like a great way to have a heart attack....why would you want to do this...??? If you have to break off to handle the line then eventually there is only one man (woman) on the tip..and there are two single people alone at different points....no partners...mean no back-up and lacking in safety....and I am sure one person could handle a 3 inch but not for long and not very effectively....seems like someone has a warped sense of humor.....If it were me I'd ask the training officer to show me how it is done as a demo before I put my people through this one....Stay safe and keep the faith...........Paul
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Permalink Reply by NOVAFireman on
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You probably don't need me to tell you that's not a very pratical way of getting a hoseline up 5 floors. There are a few things you can do to make the advance a lot easier, including using more people.
The engines at my department have what we call leader lines, 300ft of preconnected 3" with a gated Y, and a 150' line of 1 3/4" with a breakaway fog nozzle on the end. Our engines are only staffed with 3, Driver, Officer, and Firefighter. That leaves you with only two people to deploy the line. The 3" line is packed in a speedlay load connected to the Y. The 1 3/4" line, also packed in a speedlay load, is in a section next to the 3" and conncted to the Y. The officer and firefighter can deploy this line and run it dry up a stairwell pretty quickly. We use this at fires in garden style apartments where the building access is a long distance from the street or parking lot, or midrise buildings where the sprinkler system is out of service, or there is a need to supply more lines and water up the attack stairwell.
Does your department use 2 1/2" attack lines? If so, that would be more ideal for the drill you are doing. We've done the same drill with 2 1/2" preconnects, but our burnbuilding is only 3 stories tall.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on
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What purpose does this serve? You would NEVER do this in a real world situation.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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ADVANCING A CHARGED 3" LINE 5 STORIES... THIS DRILL IS ASKING FOR AN INJURY OR DEATH.
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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Sounds to me like your "instructor" is a bit of a masochist. But seriously, this is not an evolution that has many, if any, real world applications. I would take my concerns to the SO and let him make the call.
Or, just say NO!
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As I said earlier...I think your "instructor" has some issues here.....Ask him to "demonstrate" this for the class....not an out of line request....if he is asking you to do it then I assume that he can do it as well.....right..?? (I would bet NOT)....You are looking at a situation that could not only get someone hurt but possibly killed....Sorry, I have never refused an order before but this is one where I think I would put my foot down.....I will NOT endanger my people or myself for nonsense......Paul
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In addition to going to the academy commander and expressing your concerns, as a group, I would check your states competency sheets. I am sure that this is not found anywhere on them. As an instructor, if I pulled this crap, I would be out of a job. This is nothing more than an instructor with an overinflated ego. As far as the roll idea, this is taught to advance hoses (2 1/2" or 3") on flat ground, not up stairs.
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I can't say what I really think about this.....I got my hand slapped for speaking my mind here recently....Paul
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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As others have said, your instructor is an idiot. I think he mis-read and should be an UNCHARGED line. That by itself would be hard. But filled with water? If this were a paid dept, can you say early retirement.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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There is no reason to advance a charged hoseline up more that two flights of stairs, ever.
There is no validated firefighter skill sheet for this anywhere.
The instructor in this situation is risking the safety and health of the firefighters.
I'd refuse to comply with this evolution until the instructor can show a nationally-validated skill sheet for this procedure.
I'd also do what another response suggested - get the instructor to demonstrate the skill and show you how it's done.
After all, if the instructor can't do it, why should he have you do it?
Good luck and be careful,
Ben
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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Right on FETC, in my mind this drill is worthless and teaching you the wrong way to advance a hose line, no way would we do that on our department!!
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Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on
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Why are you advancing a wet 3" supply line up 5 stories? Either that or you are setting a master stream indoors, either way, why beat your people up for no good reason. I could see doing these drills with dry lines, but wet, Yowwzers that's F'ed up. I'd have to agree with the others, it's just isn't safe nor pratical.
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