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charged advance up 5 stories
We had a drill Tuesday where 3 man teams had to advance a 3" charged hose up to the 5th floor of our burn tower.
No well. No windows. No rope. Just 3 men and a charged line.
We did this sans SCBA, but today we're doing it again, with our packs, on air.
Needless to say, it is a sonofayouknowwhat.
We tried rolling the hose, and that helped, but are there any tips/tricks? I know a big part of it is just plain hard work, but I also want to work SMART, you know what I mean?
If nobody has any ideas, I'd like to know what you think about this one. I don't like it because it eventually spreads out the three guys too far apart, but anyway, here it is. The three FFs start off close to each other, muscling the charged line together up the firs flight and around the first corner. When the line starts to constrict around the corner, the last FF drops back and pulls up more slack at the point of constriction. The other two guys continue together until once again, in another flight or two, the hose constricts around a corner, then the number two guy falls back and pulls up more slack (the number three guy is now a floor below him, helping to push the slack HE created UP to the second guy).
So basically my idea starts off with three FFs together, but as they advance, they peel off the back as necessary to pull up hose.
I know, this is not the ideal way to advance hose. Ideally, if there were no well or window options, I would uncharge the lines and all three guys would go up together with the lines on their shoulders. But it's not my drill, and I have to play by the rules. Any ideas are appreciated.
No well. No windows. No rope. Just 3 men and a charged line.
We did this sans SCBA, but today we're doing it again, with our packs, on air.
Needless to say, it is a sonofayouknowwhat.
We tried rolling the hose, and that helped, but are there any tips/tricks? I know a big part of it is just plain hard work, but I also want to work SMART, you know what I mean?
If nobody has any ideas, I'd like to know what you think about this one. I don't like it because it eventually spreads out the three guys too far apart, but anyway, here it is. The three FFs start off close to each other, muscling the charged line together up the firs flight and around the first corner. When the line starts to constrict around the corner, the last FF drops back and pulls up more slack at the point of constriction. The other two guys continue together until once again, in another flight or two, the hose constricts around a corner, then the number two guy falls back and pulls up more slack (the number three guy is now a floor below him, helping to push the slack HE created UP to the second guy).
So basically my idea starts off with three FFs together, but as they advance, they peel off the back as necessary to pull up hose.
I know, this is not the ideal way to advance hose. Ideally, if there were no well or window options, I would uncharge the lines and all three guys would go up together with the lines on their shoulders. But it's not my drill, and I have to play by the rules. Any ideas are appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Aaron Wepking on
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I've got to agree with everyone on this, it's ridiculous. The only thing that I can predict being learned is the fact that you would never want to do it. Unless you do have an evil, twisted instructor with a bad sense of humor and horrible taste in teaching methods who thinks it is funny or for whatever reason has decided to cause some sort of injury to someone. I thought 2 1/2" up three stories was brutal with a four person team, but 3 on 3" up 5? Insanity. On the other hand, massive props if you and your class manage to get through it, especially if you don't end up with anyone suffering any injuries and such.
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Permalink Reply by Flyinghi72 on
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We had to do this at the fire academy I went to and it was in the middle of winter...I am sure everyone has their own stories but I do agree that this is absolutely crazy and a great way to get someone hurt. It is an impracticle evolution and one that would probably never be conducted while at a job. It is also not a certification requirement/skill that must be done in order to obtain a FFI or FFII cert. so who and why any training director or agency would do this is just nuts.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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THis drill raises some bigger picture questions and concerns about fire instructors- what qualifies them to put people throug hthese drills? Are they qualified to assess the health and well being of the participants? Have they arranged EMS standby?
And on and on it goes....
As others have also said, why do it?
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Not to be Captain Obvious or anything...
"A normal, reasonable person does not overdue doing something. Sometimes there are folks out there that have a tendency to overdue it if not checked or challenged..."
It sounds like this instructor is one of those... Couple the obvious safety considerations and it really draws one to conclude that the Chief responsible for this guy needs to be more involved. Make sure he or she know what's going on here. I bet you that if they knew about this misuse of authority then this may not have occurred in the first place. Workers comp issues alone with the increased potential for someone not only getting hurt but possibly losing their ability to ever do the job again, and why? Because someone is over using their authority.
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The only good thing about this drill is it build up your endurance and stamina to advance...
I disagree with that statement- the best way to do this is undertaking proper exercise under appropriate supervision. Humping this stuff up stairs in this manner is a recipe for disaster and as Mike said, potentially career ending for the participant
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Permalink Reply by Aussie Fire on
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So you have so much fire in a five story building that you need a 3" line on the top floor - what happened? Did you piss off the truckies so much that they won't bring a tower ladder so as you can knock the fire down into something that is manageable with a normal handline?
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But they train properly for the comabt challenge. They do all sorts of conditioning, etc. Not just running up flights of stairs...
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Permalink Reply by Michael Vito on
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Combat challenge is different. It's a competition. Those participants have took a lot of time of preparing for the event. And the participants are no trainees. What Mike and Lutan1 is trying to say is. Is this exercise relevant? What can we learn from this exercise?
In my experience I've seen instructors overdue drills and exercises, it's not pretty. There is a philosophy "train hard and to make work easier." Is the 3" and 5 storey building exercise fit this philosophy? In my opinion - no. I agree on both mike and lutan1 - this is one of a potential training accident
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Brown on
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Did you guys piss someone off who in there right mind would try to pull a 3' line up 5 flights and a charge one at that i guess saftey is not part of this drill what ever happen to high rise packs
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I am not defending this silly thread as I believe the drill is plain dangerous and unrealistic but I have to ask you two a question...
What do you consider a normal line and what would be the friction loss and actual working GPM on the other end when you extend your "normal line" up 5 stories. Come on, in reality your not stretching 5 stories straight up so how much hose are you really gonna need?
Not everyone has a tower ladder either...
If you have never fought a fire on the 3, 4, 5 without a pre-designed standpipe system, you simply can't stretch 400-500' of inch and three quarter from the street... it doesn't work.
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FETC, you wouldn't believe it. We did fought a fire on top of an abandoned building. 18 storey, An old building in which the workers are dismantling a 30 foot radio tower but it caught fire because of their carelessness of their acetylene torch.
Anyway, we use only 1 1/2 inch hose lines (no stand pipe - because it was already dismantled - and the 1 1/2 inch is only available). from a ladder truck upto 7th floor then the rest of the hoses are hanging all the way up. We tied every coupling to side of the building to prevent from tearing. It took 7 FF's to deploy with uncharged houseline. We charge it and obviously the pressure is not that good, but enough water to put it out. Good thing the fire is not that big.
While I was resting at the fire escape at 16th floor, I took this picture to show how high it is.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2luVGaKfc8
One reason you may want a 2.5" line in an apartment complex on an upper floor.
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