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What do I do?? (Town 800 People) 50-60 fire calls last yr. I think
I’ve been a Volunteer 1.5 yrs I just got my FF1. Some on my department think FF1 is a waste of time, But done the class I think the rest of the department should make time to do FF1 class It is worth the time, in VT it is 147hr long with a practical and written exam. They think if your ears get hot back up, Old school, back woods, do what works. My K4 Asst. Chief 2 yrs on the department (He was voted as K4) he has seen 1 "type 5 structure fire" and it was out before he got out of the truck.
If at a fire sene if it is just K4, me, and 2 others (Do I listen to him? I would not feel safe knowing he dose not have the experience to command a fire sene.)
Do I listen to his command?
If at a fire sene if it is just K4, me, and 2 others (Do I listen to him? I would not feel safe knowing he dose not have the experience to command a fire sene.)
Do I listen to his command?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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In Indiana FFI is also a requirement. What about NIMS? I was told everyone had to have NIMS to be eligible for federal grant money. I could be wrong. I don't know. All I can say is what everyone else has said. Follow the orders unless you don't feel safe doing it in the manner your IC wants them done. Only having a year and a half I'm guessing, unless you are on a busy dept., that you really don't have the experience yet to know what to do in certain situations. It's unfortunet that the old guys dog you for taking the classes. You may have to apply something you learned to save thier life one day. Just stick with it and take as many classes as you can on every aspect of firefighting and, if you like it, EMS and you will get along just fine. Good luck and stay safe!!!
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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We had this same problem 25 years ago, most of the guys had been on for a long time, I’ll have to admit this is second hand info, I was not on yet. Some hot shot rookie was pushing and arguing at every meeting that they need to train, well I don’t think he was a rookie but did not have the “experience” of most. He pushed so hard that 7 guys quit, new were hired, back then that was not a problem, today we refer to them as “the 7” , I think 4 are left. Training did improve but not until a few years later when this hot shot became chief. This is where I came in, he sent me and another to instructor I, WOW that was an eye opener, I never heard of an essentials manual, after that was FF II. Just to tie this in a bit we cover a town of 800, 25 FF’s and provide class 6 protection. I would urge you to walk lightly, not knowing both sides here, when we send someone to a major class like FF II, they all come back with big ideas. It’s important to have experience along with knowledge, so good luck. I guess I should mention that hot shot is our own Art Goodrich, also known as Chief Reason.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Ash,
I live up your way and can understand your frustration, as Michele said welcome to rural firefighting. Every class taken is education banked in your brain... nothing is a waste of time. Unfortunately, you will never change the instilled thoughts on formal training because "this is the way we do it kid". You see, thats how they got trained, (OJT) on-the-job by some old salty bastard... but what has occurred though is times have changed and your department hasn't.
The fires, rescues, and hazmats of today are NOT the same as the years past. Your probably hearing "back when we had real fires" and such. Well, today's fires are hotter, faster and more dangerous than anything those members have ever seen. The sad part is until someone gets seriously burned or (worse) killed, nobody is going to come in there and tell them this is how it needs to be.
The older jakes who never wore a hood or BA will argue until they need to stop and huff on their inhaler, that hoods are for wimps because you need to feel the heat. Well flashovers back then were CO and 1100F at the floor. Very few firefighters succombed to that type of insult because at those temperatures they were already outside and couldn't tolerate without full PPE. Today's gear puts us in places they have never been in, never evaluated thermal insult or had to make tactical decsions under. The chemicals in today's fire have lower flash points and we are seeing flashover before arrival, un-heard of years ago.
My best suggestion, as EngineCo913 suggested is continue your drive for further education and keep your mouth shut, follow the chain of command, fit in and use all of your education to keep yourself safe. Eventually you will gain a position within the organization that will allow you to commence change. I have seen firefighters gain that "trust" without ever getting promoted too.
As Michele said, welcome to the rural firefighting world... the politics of "who you know and NOT what you know" to gain that politically appointed officer position.
And my unpopular position on that has been spoken numerous times, just search out some of those threads.
Take Care and Stay Safe Brother
FETC
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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I have led a relatively quiet life, free from controversy and turmoil.
I do not have a disease named after me, much to my chagrin.
Some day; maybe.
TCSS.
Art
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[quote]Do I listen to his command?[end of quote]
How can you NOT listen to his command?
You have been through training. That's great.
Wasn't following a chain of command a portion of that training, as well?
Weren't these the people that you were listening to BEFORE you took FF1?
And now, you want to ignore them? You can't do that.
You have to get to work on changing the culture at your fire department and walk a very fine line between tradition and change in the meantime.
Don't try to impress them with your new found knowledge. Educate them.
Change them. If you do, the department will go in the right direction.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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I commented on this ages agao but will provide some further insite. (better than hindsite)
I agree with Art. Standing back and keeping the attitude that you have the training so therefore question orders will not fly and will surely lead to trouble. Use your knowledge to educate. Offer to become the training officer for your department and mirror the FF1 class so they get the "book" fundamentals down.
Questioning an officer on scene will cause a major conflagration. (not the kind that can be doused with water)
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Brough on
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No offense, but set back relax and listen to him. If he tells you to do something that you feel is unsafe don't. It's that simple. Explain to him why you feel that way, but above all don't be a dick about it.
BTW, use common terms even us dummies can understand, please?
If you had 50 - 60 fires last year, in a town of 800, I think it's time to work on a fire prevention program. :)
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Permalink Reply by David on
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no class is a waste. here in il we just do ff2 because it is a combined FF1&2
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Permalink Reply by hardin7002 on
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yes unless u dont feel its safe. the old way isen thewrong way but there might be a betterway of doing it now
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Permalink Reply by Pat Griffin on
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I come from a small engine company in PA. We have 21 active firefighters all of whom have at least FF1. It is a bylaw that to be a firefighter you must take and pass FF1 within one year after completing essentials of firefighting. In PA the more guys with FF1 the more you will get for the state grant. There are many benifits to having FF1. Companys near us know that their getting FF1 level guys when our truck rolls out the door. So of course you will go to more calls and get alot of mutual aid calls. Try to get more guys in your company to realize the benefits. As for your command issue, listen unless you and your teams saftey may be compromized. If he has you doing something a way you feel is wrong tell him what you think. If you go up to him yelling or yell at him over the radio, i doubt he will listen or respect you for it. Cut the guy some slack tho, he is K4 so i doubt he is IC much and has as much experience as you do. He was also voted in so if you felt this way about him you should have voted no. Look into requirements for line officer positons and see what they are required to have. I am also in the same boat as you are in the department I belong to in my college town. This month I have been their for a year and rarely open my mouth to oppose what they do. They have about 50 active firefighters and I am one of, I think 3 guys that have FF1. People have work and families and can't find the time to take the FF1 test.
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Permalink Reply by Fire Chick on
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dont let anyone tell u that any class isnt worth taking..the more classes u take the better u r trying to make urself.... i have taking almost every class i could since i joined.... i will def continue to...i know ppl who didnt take classes and they were officers and when they got on scene it was always wait or let see what they want us to do..
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