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??Volunteer fund raising, tax dollars, saving lives and property??
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm sick and tired of working my ass of doing fund raising events.
As if it isn't enough that we answer the call, train like the paid departments (no offence intended) and still have to work to raise money to buy gear, apparatus, building supplies and the list just goes on and on. Who pays the price you and your family. Don't get me wrong I love getting out there and helping people but you hear of these billions of dollars of bail out money being spent. Then you find out it went to pay for some bank presidents’ salary. It literally makes me sick to my stomach.
My department DONATED an 85' Grumman engine to a needy department in southwest Virginia and now we are looking for a replacement. We have specked out the truck and it's in the neighborhood of 400K., but guess what we can get a loan at 7% interest. We aren't talking about a luxury vehicle hear we are talking about a vehicle that is made to help save lives. Every time I think about this my blood just boils. Then on the other hand you have departments that have plenty of money, so they have to think of creative ways to spend it so they can justify the request to some pencil pusher next year.
Comments?
Am I alone out here on this one, I certainly hope not.
As if it isn't enough that we answer the call, train like the paid departments (no offence intended) and still have to work to raise money to buy gear, apparatus, building supplies and the list just goes on and on. Who pays the price you and your family. Don't get me wrong I love getting out there and helping people but you hear of these billions of dollars of bail out money being spent. Then you find out it went to pay for some bank presidents’ salary. It literally makes me sick to my stomach.
My department DONATED an 85' Grumman engine to a needy department in southwest Virginia and now we are looking for a replacement. We have specked out the truck and it's in the neighborhood of 400K., but guess what we can get a loan at 7% interest. We aren't talking about a luxury vehicle hear we are talking about a vehicle that is made to help save lives. Every time I think about this my blood just boils. Then on the other hand you have departments that have plenty of money, so they have to think of creative ways to spend it so they can justify the request to some pencil pusher next year.
Comments?
Am I alone out here on this one, I certainly hope not.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Brian P. Vickers
www.vickersconsultingservices. com
Emergency Services Consulting
Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
He has an extraordinary success rate.
Art
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Around here, the school district gets all of the money.
And the ambulance service.
Then there is that TIF thing.
Not to mention, population in our county keeps going down.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Diamond Chief on
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Well put strtcopr. Over the years we have lost some great firefighters because most of our activities focused on fundraising and little in the way of fire training etc. It has always been strange to me that in our small town, we are the largest department in several ways but will only name the two that stands out here: manpower and assets, yet we are not a line item in the city budget. And yes, We Have and Will Continue to Ask for Change because It Will Come!!!
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Permalink Reply by kenny goines on
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wE CHARGE FOR ANY NON-MEMBER MVA, OR NON-MEMBER FIRE CALL THAT WE GO TO. SOME OF THESE BILL CAN GO WELL INTO THE THOUSANDS, SOMETIMES TWENTY THOUSAND OR MORE, FOR NON-MEMBER FIRES. IT IS UP TO THE PROPERTY OWNERT TO PAY THESE BILLS, IT HAS BEEN UPHELD IN COURT ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION. IF THEY DONT PAY IT IS POSSIBLE FOR US TO PUT A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY UNTIL IT IS PAID IN FULL!! AND BTW WE ARE A FULLY VOLUNTEER DEPARTMENT IN ARKANSAS.
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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Not in Illinois, can’t say for any other state. I can’t see anyone fighting this except the insurance companies. Some MA agreements may have a clause to cover this, around here we don’t bill for MA house fires. Funny thing about homeowners insurance, everyone has a clause to pay for dept services, I had a fire once and tried to get the dept some money and was told…well you can’t pay a dept that is funded by your tax dollars, so I asked why the hell do I have to pay for this and I can’t use it!!! never got a good answer.
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WE ARE NOT TAX BASED. 90 PERCENT OF OUR INCOME COMES FROM MEMBERSHIP DUES. THERE IS A LAW IN ARKANSAS THAT SAYS INSURANCE COMPANIES CANNOT RELEASE ANY FUNDS TO PROPERTY OWNERS UNTIL THE CHIEF APPROVES IT. THEREFORE WE DONT SIGN OFF UNTIL WE ARE PAID. IT SEEMS TO WORK PRETTY WELL DOWN HERE. WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO GO TO A FIRE DISTRICT, BUT ARE VERY EARLY IN THE PROCESS WITH ALOT TO LEARN STILL.
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We have some state grants available, but unless you’re destitute you can forget it. You can try the NRCS in you county, they have some, oh I should say Natural Resource Conservation Service. Its also a very good idea to work with your local state representative.
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Damthing, I can't argue with that. Other than to say; I feel we do ease the burden a little, not much, but maybe enough so that when we do need more, Joe taxpayer will understand. I should say we are funded entirely by property taxes for which are distributed by our trustees, fundraiser money belongs to the fireman to do with as we see fit.
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Permalink Reply by B Small on
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In this area, most of the departments are putting the tax supported fire dept on the ballot and usually get it if they sell it right. It doesn't give the departments the kind of money to go paid or anything like that most of the time but does give you dependable income for operating expenses and capitol expendature. Most are setting the levy at 25 to 30 cents per $100 of assessed valuation on property. It costs them some money every year but if your ISO rating comes down a couple of points due to improvements in the Fire Department they will almost make up the difference in insurance costs. Be prepared to make some life long enemies when you do this but it is worth it trust me. Just don't go to low on your proposed levy. Many people will pay to fund the department, but most will no vote to increase the taxes if you find out you aren't going to make enough to meet your needs. My home department went district after a bitter fight. The last year before we put it on the ballot we took in zero dollars and operated on the money we had in the bank. We had four trucks, three of which were custom built in house. Half the guys had old Bullard hard boiled helmets,and were wearing storm king boots with no bunker pants. Now they have plenty of rolling equipment. The turn out gear is all current NFPA certified, and they have ALS rescue. It didn't happen over night, but they were able to borrow money against their first tax check immediately, and start the critical improvements that were needed.
Another thing departments here do is apply for matching funds grants from the department of conservation. Since most, wild land, or brush fires are fought by volunteer fire departments in rural areas Mssouri distributes a lot of money to see these departments have the tools they need to fight them.
Do feel to jelous of the paid departments either. The large paid department in this area has been ravaged by the city government. They have built new stations but not added to the man power. Every time they open a station they rob guys from the existing stations and spread them thinner and thinner. If that weren't bad enough the city mismanaged the pension funds and now the money these firefighters have already paid in is gone and the city is playing it off like it is the fire fighters fault. Now they are threatening to lay off fire fighters, and close stations to make up the short fall, all the while building Ice parks and other pet projects that mostly just give the homeless a place to hang out during the day. Things could always be worse. I kind of miss the old days of putting on chili suppers, and having all the people turn up for that. Once you go tax supported that's over.
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When damthing posted about going to the city council for money, we are not funded by them; it reminded me of a funny story about our old (tightass) trustees, funny now, not then.
This was way back, when we first got scba’s, our trustees, with the usual what you need them for, had just agreed to buy 4. Then we had a city councilman ask if there was anything we needed, they had a little extra money, so we got 2 more. Well the head tightass…I mean trustee got wind of this deal with the city, and canceled 2 they had ordered. This may not sound funny, you would have to know them, none were younger then 70, none were ever on the dept, 2 were snowbirds and gone for 6 months, all owned a lot of property and farm ground get the picture. Anyways only sad part, it pissed the city off enough so they never asked again.
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Personally, I would approach the town fathers/local governance/trustees etc. and lay an unbelievable amount of guilt and shame on them. It's all in the presentation. The PD has the local papers and TV news to hype for them every night on local crime and, let's face it, the national evening news that tells you about some horrible crime 1500 miles away DOES have an impact locally on how people see police funding. Show them a HUGE fire, with horrible losses (civilians and firefighters) and it does NOT have that same impact as the crime.
Thanks for the heads up!:)
Trainer brought back a memory that I had long forgotten. See; I was chief during some of the "glory days". Back then, I thought I was going to drive a couple of them to heart attacks. One did have a heart attack, but he was watching a Cubs game at the time, so I refuse to take the blame for it.
What we encountered back then was; no matter how compelling or thorough or justified the purchase was, it was always met with the same response: we aren't spending any money.
That isn't the case now. Because two of the three trustees have a fire background, we have a better understanding of the "needs" and the "wants". We need it; we get it. You want it; you buy it. It works well.
For example: if we needed a TV monitor in the rescue so we could feed from our TI camera, tax money would buy the TV monitor. If the fire department wanted a new TV for the meeting room, they would spend fundraising or donated money for this purpose. Believe it or not, the laws are clear on what tax money can and cannot be used for.
We were able to change the "old" ways. It took time, but it was worth it.
Trainer and I can agree on that.
We still have squabbles, but no more donnybrooks.
TCSS.
Art
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