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Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I wish we could know that we were going to get a dozen people in on the first two pumpers! Not having a go at you mate, we each know our own areas best.
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Bloody garage fires - this thread is a jinx! Supprort call today to our career neighbours with a garage fire. Two pumpers (them and us) and a teleboom on scene. Didn't get anywhere near either the pics or the one I mentioned earlier. Knocked down and out with the first pumpers high pressure reel.
Crew at this job? On a Saturday afternoon? Three in the first pumper. Three in the second, us. Three in the stick. Normal crewing for our career mates, bloody terrible for us. Where was everybody? Xmas shopping maybe? Oh well, it is so nice when the call is put in early and we have a chance to get there before all you can see is flame and smoke. My job on this call? Help to put a feed from us to the first pumper, then get some traffic cones out to close the road. How can these people think that it's OK to drive past red trucks with their lights flashing, hoses on the road, crew moving around doing work? I thought one was going to have a go at me for waving to him trying to get him out of the road. Idiots.
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Chris, not trying to hijack the thread, but wanted to show this photo:
This is all new housing, the open areas you can see have now been built on to the same density. The houses are all what we call 'brick veneer' - timber frame houses with a non loadbearing brick outer shell. The houses would all have factory built wall sections and trusses for the roofs, which are mostly concrete tile. Any two storey houses would have truss sections between the storeys. The houses would all be open plan in the living area.
This is an area where we could expect a going house fire to spread easily to it's neighbours if we don't get enough resources on scene quickly enough. Exposure hell. The top part of this development also has lousy water pressure to the hydrants.
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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WOW, this one really got everyone thinking, each has their own way, let me comment on a few observations. 5 engines, with an eng being, 1 officer, 1 engineer, 2 FF, not everyone, but common practice. My training and MABAS tells me to call for more resources then I need, I have 2 eng’s for plan B, and extra eyes. Smoothbore/fog, I like smoothbore, but if I have a choice here is not the place, you hit this baby with one and you’ll blow shit all over, you have to look at the big picture, actually some good air aspirated nozzles would be better. Now my first response on this, I didn’t answer as if my dept was responding, I was thinking an ideal situation. We would respond with 1 eng, 1 heavy rescue, with another eng shortly after, automatic aid would kick in and 5min later we would have another eng with medium rescue, that’s our still, this also brings 2 ambulance crews. I would call a box for 2 more engines; I believe this would be to the first level. This looks (notice I didn’t say assume) to be an easy save, and I’m going to make an aggressive attack, but in my mind, I’m concerned about the while block, anyone not thinking that, well… I won’t say it.
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Permalink Reply by Jamie L on
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Unfortunately my department had a similar fire about 2 months ago. The difference is that it was 2:45 am and when we arrived at 2:49 am after getting the page (all vollunteer dept) fire had spread into the home. We dropped some 2 1/2 and a blitz fire along with a water curtain on the closest exposure with our tower. My sugestion is BIG WATER !!!! Believe it or not we showed with one attack pumper, tower, rescue and 15 firefighters. We got knock down and control in 11 minutes. Yes eleven minutes and we were doing overhaul. In a situation like that the only thing you can do safely is dump big water , protect other structures and give a great effort. When I arrived on scene I was certain it'd be a complete loss. Big water made it a complete job with a standing structure other then the garage a complete loss (thats the area where the fire started).
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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Ben;
A great size up and risk analysis..
The comment on; "There really is no "front" door on this structure..." was finally realized. A lot of talk about making entry and interior ops...may not be feasible. This is a relativley small songle story house plan, with the entry path affected by the progressing fire and the radiant heat cell...
There's still a lot of great comments being generated...its getting everyone think...again, "Its only a garage fire.. isn't it?"
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...thanks for the shot and info...Thus the reason why we need to understand our response districts and develop and apply unique and appropriate strategies and tactics....and ensure our resources match the potential risk...
Thanks for the post....
stay safe.
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Permalink Reply by George Leighlitner on
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The first situation would be for exposure to side "B". The second would be for entry from side "C"or side "D" to check for entrapped victims. If no victims are found then fight the fire from within and push the fire out to side "B" from within the structure. DO NOT PUSH THE FIRE IN BY ATTACKING IT FROM THE EXTERIOR!!! First due response would be three engines, one ladder truck, one rescue and one ambulance. First engine in crew to establish entry to search for victims, Second engine in for water supply and to protect exposure. Second engine in supply water to first in engine. If not able to fight the fire from wiyhin the structure and push it out then reestablish and utilize master stream and two 1 3/4 inch hand lines for a massive assult from the exterior. Third engine in would be for backup crews for relief of firefighters from initial attack. Ladder truck to supply ladder operations if necessary / set up and be ready if needed. Rescue and ambulance for firefighter rehab. Its apparent with so much involvment that eventually the garage roof has the potential for collapse. After 15 miniutes of initial fire attack - reevaluate the exposure and the extension into the house of involvement. With the set up that I have just done the knockdown should take place within a 15 minute time frame then do an extension and overhaul into the main house. Also an extension review of all exposures.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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As is usually the case with photos, it doesn't give you an accurate "picture" of what you are seeing.
Video works better.
However; I think many very good observations have been made, strategies based on those observations have been discussed and that creates a good lessons learned.
As for me, I want to be able to touch it, smell it and make critical decisions based on the ever changing conditions, be they weather or fire.
Excellent discussion, though.
TCSS.
Art
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"Engine Co.21 to Command...we've got fire in the Delta Exposure and its extending...."
During your twenty (20) minutes of on scene operations, the fire rapidly communicated to the Delta Exposure and is in the truss loft area of house No 2.... it self vented on the other side and also has started communicating and extending to the exposed construction materials at house No.3.
House 1. The primary fire structure has heavy fire that has extended into the kitchen from the garage. The garage roof has partially collapsed. The access to the interior of House N0.1 thru the front door is impeded due to high radiant heat and proximity to the involved area of the garage.
House No.2 has heavy fire extension within the truss loft area of the attic only at this time. The fire self vented out the gable end louver (delta side ) and has just begun to communicated to the exposed construction materials on House No.3.
House No. 3 is being completed renovated;…lots of exposed wood and open areas....
How have these factors affected your current operations and IAP?
What are you going to do…?
Did you considered the potential for the fire to escalate to this level…?
What are the primary operational concerns presented at this stage of the incident?
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Thanks for the insights Chief...I agree, IF we were confronted with an actual incident scene, operational decision-making may be entirely different, based upon observations, communications etc...
In the absence of these or the opportunity to actual have these types of "fires" based upon department size and area density and hazards etc...I gotta give a lot of credit, as you also mentioned...we've got some great thinkers out there...and it appears we've got some new and up and coming firefighters and officers who are giving up their insights.
This is how we learn and share, from each other and from the collective experiences we all bring to the forums....
Stay safe and thanks for your contributions.........
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