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Its only a "Garage Fire"...
You've arrived at a Single family residential, there appears to be a "pretty good" working fire located within the garage..but its extending due to a strong wind and the fire loading within the garage. As you can see from the aerial views, this house is located within a fairly dense and common subdivision. All the structures are wood frame, some have asphalt architectural shingles, others have wood shakes. There's a hydrant right in front on the Alpha side. ( Cops just moved their patrol car from the front of it).
So....How big of a problem do you have?
What can you expect in the way of safety concerns related to typical garage fires? ie fire loading, products, materials, exposures, hazards etc. In this incident what does your risk profiling tell you?
Strategy, tactics....take your pick; what are the issues and how are you going to address them?
Logistics...What'll happen if the fire communicates to the Delta exposure and takes command of that structure?
Let's hear about insights on command management, engine ops, truck ops and rescue ops...you make the call.
Lastly... What are the "BIG" picture issues confronting you, IF you can't control the fire to the house of origin and the fire rapidly extends to other exposures ( three or more adjacent structures..due to wind driven fire and your lack of getting ahead of the fire progress tactically) Again, look at the aerial images..what are the operational and safety considerations?
UPDATE: CHECK THE POSTINGS STARTING ON THREAD PAGE FIVE...THE FIRE HAS NOW EXTENDED..."hope you're calling in some additional alarms...."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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"Isn't my relief here yet.....?!" lol
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Permalink Reply by LP on
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I just want to say thank you I am taking my 240 here in about 4 weeks and this is a very big help I enjoy all of this and the scenarios are just great
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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From what I see you will definately have to knock down the fire in the garage before you can make entry through the front. Possibly using a deck gun on it or a 2 and a half to knock it down from the first engine. I would start on the D side of the fire to get that side cooled off. If using a deck gun then have a crew go in with a 1- 3/4 line to knock it down by the front door to make entry and try to head it off at the house. 2nd engine would then be assigned as my RIT team. I would also have my 3rd engine check the exposure on the D side inside for any fire in that structure due to close proximity. My next arriving truck whatever it may be would check the house 2 doors down due to the fact that I see alot of lumber outside that could potentially catch fire from embers. I don't think I would really worry about any flamable material in the garage due to the amount of fire. Anything inside is probably gone by now. Maybe some fertilizer for the lawn that may cause some inhalation hazards though. But I am from a volunteer dept. so anything we do is pretty much assign on arrival since we don't really know who is going to show up first. We would definately have to call for mutual aid from probably 3 other depts. for this job.
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Permalink Reply by teresa on
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Okay, so I do not fight structure fires at all, however I am a wild land fire fighter always looking for more training . My first assessment with the high winds and the neighboring homes packed in so close might have been that the structure on fire will be a total loss, and would concentrate on keeping the flames from spreading to adjacent structures. I next notice the wooden fence so close to each home not only limiting access but potentially a cause for spread. And then I take notice of the home under construction 2 doors down. There is a cause for concern there if the fire spreads. Also there appears to be sheds in each back yard probably containing hazardous materials. These sheds are both directly underneath power lines. Huge risk any where near those. So upon arrival my first thought would be to be sure no one was inside the engulfed structure, and then to evacuate the surrounding homes. At the same time having the power shut down to those lines. Only then would I make an attack on the adjacent homes. Though this is where my ideas all stop, because i am not trained in that fashion.
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Permalink Reply by Bobby Armstrong on
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see everyone has a diff. plan... and they are all great plans... but every dept. would do something diff... so what would you do?
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Permalink Reply by Dwight Goodman on
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Well...Obviously our building codes are different in Australia to those that are in America but this looks like a similar situation to what we 'Aussies would encounter so here is how us aussies would probably tackle something like this....
First Pumper on-scene:
- Establish water supply
- Pull an attack line and start a knock down of the garage and double up as an exposure line for the house on the right
- 2 members in CABA to start a primary search of the main structure with a 38mm line for protection and knock down of any fire spread. Ventilating as they go.
- Call for an additional pumper
Second Pumper on-scene:
- Procede to the street at the rear of the property
- Secure water supply
- Establish an exposure/attack line for any fire spread at the rear of the structure.
Third truck on-scene
- Provide crew for CABA operations and running more attack/exposure lines
- Set up a ladder for a crew to open up the roof space and knock down any fire spread through the roof.
Additional Pumper arrives:
- Set up at the house on the 'Delta' side, and establish an exposure line to protect the house.
- Perform a check on the structure for any fire spead and knock down as needed.
So...
Incident controller:
- Rescue
- Exposures
- Containment
- Extinguishment
followed up by the obvious...Overhaul.
Operations:
- Pumpers
- Power and Gas companies
Safety Officer:
- Flamable liquids and Gases
- Power and Gas shut off
- CABA crew locations and operations (Is is safe to be where they are? etc etc etc...)
Sector commanders:
- Front
- Rear
- Delta exposure
- CABA
By using the first truck to knock down the heat of the fire and at the same time try to limit the amount of heat and burning material crossing to the house in the right of the picture, should stop the chances of it spreading. But as insurance for the house on the right I would call for an additional pumper as some insurance and set it up to protect the house and search for any fire spread.
And as they say..."The rest is history"
Feel free to critisize me on this or ask some questions.
Cheers
DG
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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I got a question. If you put a PPF in the front window, what’s it going to do to the fireball? I’m looking for an honest answer from someone with experience. I’m not an advocate and am not looking to start a debate on this subject, which is what usually happens, but I said it before this looks like an ideal place. However if it pushes the fire towards the next house, well that’s what I want to know. If I got to write this house off to save the block, I’m going to.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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I would not use PPV on this fire for several reasons...
There is a small amount of fire just inside the "front" door - the one at the D-A corner.
Using this as the PPV intake will drive this fire through the house.
PPV requires a controllable exhaust point on the downwind side. This fire doesn't have a controllable exhaust point. It either has no exhaust point if the door between the house and the garage is shut, or it has an uncontrolled exhaust point right into the seat of the fire.
PPV (really PPA in this case) is designed for small, ventilation-controlled fires. This fire is big and fuel-controlled.
This fie isn't a good PPV fire, but asking about it is a good consideration.
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I think I heard that question on a recent structural collapse call. :-)
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Chris,
Due to my department's relative isolation on an island, all we'd have left after using 4 engines (1 of those a quint) and our only truck on the initial fire is 3 engines, 2 unstaffed spare engines, and an unstaffed spare truck.
My first action, give the firespread would be to have dispatch send me the 3 remaining engines (1 of those is a quint as well) and Battalion 2. I'd also request mutual aid of two engines and a tower ladder from our only nearby M.A. department.
My second action would be to terminate the interior operation on the initial dwelling. I'd maintain Engine 1's portable monitor and pull the interior handline to the outside to protect Exposure B.
All other personnel on the initial alarm would be directed to fight the exposure fires.
Truck 1's aerial will be redirected to House #2.
We'll make sure that the exposure houses are not occupied, but we're now talking a defensive group fire.
Life safety is still the highest priority, and will stay that way.
Engine 3 will be recalled from brand patrol and mate up with the rest of their crew. They'll protect the Delta exposure downwind of house @3. They'll lay a second supply line (5 inch) from the next hydrant downwind of the exposure fires. They'll use the deck pipe and a 2.5 inch line to make sure the fire doesn't extend further.
Engine 2 will lay a third supply line from the upwind side and position in the gap between House #2 and #3. They'll add their deck pipe to the attack on House #2. They'll pull a 2.5 inch handline and hit House #3. Once House #3's fire is controlled, we'll concentrate on the other two house fires.
The second alarm will protect the exposures downwind of House #3. The spares, staffed with recalled firefighters, and the mutual aid units will protect the Charlie exposures and conduct further downwind brand patrols.
The cops will evacuate the rest of the houses downwind and on the Charlie side to at least the end of the block as a precaution.
We'll have about 5 or 6 chiefs on this one. A deputy chief will assume command and set up a fixed command post upwind. Accountability will be expanded. Battalion 2 will be assigned to House #3 and Truck 1's captain will take House #2.
Our Chief and Emergency Manager will open the EOC and start getting additiona mutual aid resources, public utility, liaison, and civilian assistance from the Red Cross started. We'll open at least one shelter at the schools complex. We'll have the utilities boost the water pressure.
We'll also call for additional EMS resources to assist with incident rehab and to evacuate any citizens who are not physically able to self-evacuate. We'll also get a couple of school buses to evacuate any civilians who are able-bodied but don't have their own transportation.
If the fire gets any bigger, we'll activate our state Firefighter Mobilization plan for additional mutual aid.
If this turns into a campaign event, we'll go to operational periods, establish a full General Staff, and set up a BOO with plenty of space for personnel sanitation, food/hydration, and rest areas.
We will keep single command, as this incident is a fire.
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Permalink Reply by Daren on
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being a volunteer firefighter and not having all the resources as a city would, we would use all that we had. Any structure fire our dispatch tones 3 stations out unless an officer arrives on scene adn asks for more. Since there is a hydrant in the front yard we wouold hook a 5 inch to it to being with. Once trucks began to arive on scene exposures would be protected and fire attack would begin.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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I'm answering this without reading every reply here. A couple comments caught my eye. First, a "water curtain" is a blast from the past, and ineffective, to say the least. Back a few decades ago there were many home-made type nozzles used for water curtains between exposures. They rarely worked. Radiant heat passes through. You must apply the water to the exposure to maximize the cooling effect. The same goes for the straight stream creating too many embers...? That's a new one to me. Open that stream up to even a 3o degree"fog" and your gonna vaporize that much more water.
This is a fairly routine fire with certain "what-if's" to be sure, such as the garage contents, and life exposure in the residence. Regardless of individual responses, and who has what on whatever alarm assignment, it's pretty cut and dry. You can pull 3 inch and three quarter lines if you want, but this fire requires your first line to be a mobile two and a half as your first line. I don't disagree that a master stream could be considered for a quick knock-down. But the ability to move a "big line" around is an advantage. The garage is gone...you have to begin to knock down the fire.
The next line, considering no occupants, will be a big lione in the residence to prevent fire spread through the house. If your limited to just a crew of two with that line, an inch and three quarter may suffice.
A portable monitor between exposures, or another two and a half should keep it from extending.
Stretching a couple of 1.75" lines to cover both the fire and the exposer "D" is a waste. The 1.75" line isn't going to provide the rapid knock-down, regardless of easy they are to manuever.
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