The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Question for the Chief's ??
We had a 2 car PI accident last week and it was at a very tricky intersection. The intersection is a 4 way stop and is in a bowl style shape with the intersection in the bottom of the bowl. The roads were pure ice too. We had a firefighter of 4 years respond in his POV and came up over the hill, towards the intersection and could not stop. Instead of plowing through everyone he took the ditch and rolled his truck over onto the top of his roof (totalling his truck). Everyone else was able to stop at some point and time but we all know what type of intersection it is.
My question to you is what would you do, if this was one of your firefighters? As in what type of actions if any would you take with this firefighter.
My question to you is what would you do, if this was one of your firefighters? As in what type of actions if any would you take with this firefighter.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
-
TJ,
I'm not a Chief but have years of supervisory experience in the US Army.
I would first start with restricting his response in a POV and have him ride, not drive, in apparatus. Then retraining in motor vehicle operations. Does your FD run motor vehicle records checks? He might have a history as a problem driver, if that is found, more serious restrictions should apply or possible removal. TCSS
-
Permalink Reply by united 289..{Dave} on
-
4 years, 11 years, 30 years. Accidents will happen. There is some unanswered questions here. What was the road condition like prior to the intersection. Just because the intersection was icy doesn't mean the road prior to the intersection was icy. What kind of clearance from the top of the hill to the intersection? Was there Flares out at the top of the hill before the crest? Whats your SOP's for responding to calls in personal vehicles. You said everyone else was able to stop. Was they firefighters responding to the same call and from the same direction? Or was they civilians traveling at a normal speed? Remember this firefighter was responding to and emergency. As chief I can't answer that question to I have all the facts.
Dave
-
Permalink Reply by T.J. on
-
The whole road was ice. The clearance from the crest of the hill to the accident was bout 100 yards. No flares yet or law on scene, just one other FF. Our SOP's are to respond in a carefull manner and to obey all roadway laws. Yes we had firefighters come in the same way he did and even moments after he rolled his truck and they were able to stop.
-
-
Having that audience to remind him I'm sure he will never forget what happened. That in itself should help him drive more careful in the future. Formal driver training would be a heck of a great idea and would still not allow him to respond via POV at least for now. Future law suits have a way of bringing up the past and what the FD knew from the past. Plus we have a duty to protect the public even if it is from ourselves. Hope this helps.TCSS
-
-
Ok with this info and still somewhat a rookie. At least in my book. I see he has had a record check and seemed to check out. Has he had any other near misses or other complaints about his driving to emergency scene?
-
Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
-
I would be interested in the condition of his tires. As I recall T.J. your department allows POVs to respond to your scenes, as we do.
Accidents will happen, particularly this time of year when we all have to be "retrained" in the fine points of winter driving.
I think he did a great thing by opting into the ditch so no one else got hurt. I also think the experience by itself would be enough to teach the lesson, although a strong message to the rest of the members regarding the importance of good tires and extra caution in winter time might not be amiss.
-
Permalink Reply by Ricky on
-
First let me say I hope the FF is okay and not hurt.
The volunteer depts. here do not allow response in POV to the scene of MVAs unless they will be passing the scene enroute to the station. If the firefighter will be passing the scene enroute to the station, then they are to park their POV more than 100 feet from the scene so as not be part of the congestion. On scene personnel (upon size-up) should advise other responders if additional help is needed and turn others around if not needed.
A FF with 4 yrs. of responding should know how to respond in those conditions and (forgive me) assuming the FF was familiar with this intersection, should have known to slow down long before cresting the top of the hill.
Having said that, the FF has suffered the humiliation (hopefully) of the crash, and also lost his truck. That would be enough punishment for me. Of course he will probably be reminded of his driving skills for years to come also.
Your department may want to reconsider the issue of responding in POV to MVAs, and all calls for that matter. Remind everyone when responding to calls,whether in POV or emergency vehicles, crashes like this require resources to be diverted and/or reassigned. You can't help if you don't make it to the call.
Stay safe.
-
-
Yes a couple of FF reported in the past that he has been seen going to fast on emergency calls.
-
-
I agree with you 100% Joe, I'd hate to see this kid get in trouble after totalling out his truck and no one was injured not even himself. I asked my chief what he was going to do after it happened and he stated "I'll have to think about it".
-
-
Thanks Ricky, actually this happened about 3 hours before one of our department meeting's and he did not come just because he feels like he let use down or something. Also yes I'm sure we'll all be reminded of this by our Chief at our next meeting.
-
Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
-
None. The guy was allowed by department policy to respond directly to the scene, Code 3. He was doing his job and he had an accident, and even put his own life in danger, rolling his vehicle into a ditch. He was lucky that he could accomplish this task. He must be an awesome driver. My personal opinion T.J. is that no one should be responding Code 3 in a personal vehicle anywhere. There is not that much of a difference between blazing through intersections running code and traveling Code 2... no lights and sirens. And responding to the incident needs to be in an emergency vehicle. Anything less creates a problem potential. Risk verses benefit. Ask the cops what they think about the policy and then ask your insurance provider. I can guess what their opinion would be. Discontinue the practice and maybe you can get a break on your insurance rates...
Late Note: Just saw Ricky's response and mirror his comments. As you can see, we are all on the same page here... I still think that even responding slowly, from what little I know about driving on ice, it's unpredictable and even going slow, you can loose control. The passing the MVA or incident enroute thing is ok, in fact it is very specific and provides good sound judgement and thought. Someone's done the homework for your department for you... : ) Good luck, Mike
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
