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Firemen Going to Medical Calls that are not Medically Trained!
On my department a lot of our calls are medical calls and we've got 15-20 fireman that are medical trained for this reason and the ambulance will call use when they need assistance. But we get quite a few fireman that show up that are not trained at all, they might have cpr but thats it. Nobody seems to care about this that we've got untrained people trying to help out at medical calls. My question is, is this even legal and what would happen if it would ever go to court and what can be done to try to stop it. I just dont want a lawsuit and the other fireman are like it'll never happen, maybe I'm over reacting here I dont know.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by A.J. on
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without medical training they touch a patient without medical training you could get your rearend sued off. not only them but also the department itself. thats somthing that would need to be brought up in a concerned nice way. good luck.
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Permalink Reply by Ashley on
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We run EMS calls on the engine too as first responders however the majority of our people are EMTs of some level. We're a combo station, EMT is mandatory for all paid however the volunteer side it is not. If you are not and EMT and on the truck you are not allowed to touch the patient or even assist in direct or indirect patient care. I don't know if that helps but they are very strict about that at my department.
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Permalink Reply by FFF on
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Jenny what we refer to has medical calls are specifically just a medical problem i.e diebetic reacitions, chest pains, seizures, broken leg, strokes etc. These usually take place in a persons home, at a school, restruant, nursing home/group home etc. A fire/rescue call refers to a any fire, mva (car, truck, boat, tractors etc), where searching is involved, collapses, rescues like rock climbing or parachuting accidents etc. The fire/rescue calls even have there own seperate tone on our pagers so we know right away if this is a fire/rescue call or just an medical call.
I also agree with Adam, when ever someone responds to an medical emergancy they will be expected to that person to be doing something. They will assume people resonding to a medical call are medically trained.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Schmitt on
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Let me clarify what I meant by "First Responders." I my area we have EMT first responders, Emt-B, Emt-Paramedic, At present we dont have an intermediate level, which will start next year (that for another discussion later). Firefighters can become crosstrained in those areas, when they take those classes. Firefighter skills are a whole differant area in which personnel will be trained in. To have anyone do things in which you are not trained in is asking for alot of trouble. Also Mva's are considered fire calls in my area, due to rescue, extrication, Haz-mat etc. etc. The occupents and treatment of injuries is the responsibility of the EMT's.
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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Right on Adam and we respond both medical and FF to PI accidents also, but I'm talking about the common house call for medical help.
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Permalink Reply by Joey Hightower on
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Well, it depends on you volunteer immunity act and good samaritain law. If someone acts out of the scope of his/her training and is grossly neglegent, it could mean trouble.
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That is the training we also have 1st responder (about 40 hours at the tech school), EMT-B, EMT-IV, EMT-IT &EMT-P. Like I stated previous about 25% of our 75-100 volunteers are trained to at least 1st responder with a majority of them at least a basic.
Also here the good samitain law no longer covers once you are responding as a fd personnel. It does cover when you just happen to be there (driving past an mva, at a restruant etc., but not when responding to a page/tone.
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what state are you in?
In Arkansas, it covers you unless you recieve compensation. So volunteer FFs are covered. But at the same time, I know this varies from state to state.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Bottom line is:
If you want to help out at medical calls, then get the training.
You want to watch, rent the DVD.
You afraid of getting sued, then you don't have the stomach to be a FF either. I mean; I can sue you if I trip and fall on your sidewalk. Let's get real.
You stay within the scope of your training and pass the patient to a higher level of treater, then what's the problem?
You're either all in or you're out.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Jim on
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Two questions: 1) are you volunteer or fulltime? 2) are you responding as first responders or as a medical assist for the ambulance? I work fulltime for a hospital based ems, we often have the Vol FD respond to help. The Good Sam Laws will protect the FF as long as they are not practiceing above the knowledge level (ie basics tubing a pt would not be good). The FF should only be there to assist not do EMS. As an EMT-I when I respond as a FF i can only practice my I skills if it is an emergency situation and necessary to preserve life. Even then after the call I am to call my EMS supervisor and he will put me on the clock for the ambulance to cover my use of my skills.
Each state is different and the state protocals may differ, but the Good Sam laws are federal thru DOT I believe and should cover those not medically trained. There is actually more liability for your EMT's that work for other services and are on the FD then if you have no training at all if your dept is not state certified for first response or ems.
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Permalink Reply by svfd1722 on
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yeah i feel you we have the same stuff going on in my dept but yeah i think as long as u don't do anything over your protocol then u will be fine like as for me as an emt i can start ivs and things but the 1st responders in my dept can only do to what level of training they have but yeah i agree it does get kinda irritating when there are firemen that dont need to be there.
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