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Chief On Scene; Working Residential with Trapped Civilians
You’re the Company Officer (or Acting Officer) on the first-due Engine Company. Chief's on scene with a working fire in a single story wood frame residential occupancy. Confirmed by neighbors that there is an elderly female confined to a wheelchair in the residence possibly with a second resident. Hydrant is near the house as you arrive.
The house was built within the past year. Discuss your immediate actions and why. What’s your assignments based upon a (very liberal) five person crew. ( you weren’t short staffed today). What are your safety concerns, what’s the level of risk to your personnel and where a you going to go first? Where is your crew going to go first? Assuming a second due Engine Company is still 5 minutes out, with the Truck Company being heard in the distance. If you assume the Command Officer’s role; What’s your Incident Action Plan (IAP)? What’s the risk/benefit profile? What are your concerns for the occupants? For the firefighters? (Are you sweating yet?) “Affirmative; Engine, your on scene, now lets get to work”
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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One argument to remember when considering the blitz attack: if you put the fire out, or knock it down, it makes the search and rescue problem a whole lot easier - and safer.
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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My engineer has secured a LDH and giving fire conditons to interior. Chief is directing in coming and accoutability.
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My guess it is antifreeze or water, all vehicle fires usally produce small streams from them. Battery acid or antifreeze, or water lines to a slop sink melted.
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Once you hit that garage from street side Master Stream you would probably force the fire in and feed it. FF's and victims are more than likly going to be steamed.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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letting the fire go unabated will kill them and or the firefighters attempting the rescue. Fire supression is a must for this incident for the rescue to occur. 5 minutes of fire exposure and your endangering the firefighters to a collapse potential from the gusset plates on the trusses.
You willing to take that risk? Knocking down a bulk of the fire with a master stream will knock the heat down and will limit the fires spread to a managable level the interior firefighters could handle.
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I share your optomism Jenny. Without a hint of smoke in the front windows, the indication is the fire is in the attic space. There is good potential that the attic is one wide open continuous span and the fire is still semi-contained to the garage wall. (since code mandate a 1 hour wall between the garage and main home) In effect there should be some time to make a rescue while having your incoming units (regardless of company designation) to provide supression. I am just unsure what the major fuss is over using a master stream (in the garage area only) is. It will steal the heat away from the fire and will improve the conditions for the firefighters inside. What little fire MAY get pushed towards the firefighters (if any) would be managable with an interior attack line to continue the S&R
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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on
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It looks like we have enough responses that we can build some consensus at this point. Most people seem to agree on the following:
1. Hit the hydrant with one FF, and lay in to establish water supply
2. Pump operator stays with the rig which leaves three until the Hydrant man returns.
3. Most respondents seemed to favor a 2 1/2" line so two FF's pack up for a search while a 2 1/2 is stretched and placed as an unmanned line to push fire away from the uninvolved part of the home.
4. By this time the hydrant man has returned and should be assigned to initiate horizontal positive pressure ventilation on the D side to push products of combustion away from the search team.
5. Improved conditions interior thanks to PPV combined with a big line attack cooling lots of fire should buy the search team enough time to complete a search and make a grab if there is one to be made.
6. Once S&R is completed, interior team takes a hand line in and begins to knock fire, and overhaul.
7. Two are now assigned to exterior line and can move the line as needed to extinguish.
Even with the likelyhood of lightweight construction most of us seem to agree that a searchable interval is still present, but if conditions did go south, during or after a search, get out and go defensive.
The truck is due any minute and they might even be able to stand by as RIT. But they might be of better use relieving the interior team which by now has gone through at least one bottle, and to improve the ventilation that is already in place.
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Exactly. Why would you want your manpower on scene making a search to dedicate most of their time to supression with handlines when your driver could work the deck gun (attached to the engine) by himself. The only thing that concerns me a little is the absense of power lines. This means there is underground power. Most underground power is brought into the home through the garage (where the breaker panel is) or in the basement. I would ensure Utilities was notified and a rush be placed on them.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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This fire is well beyond the fire rating or extension phase of the garage. The front wall is gone (above the doors) and the top picture shows alot of fire on the roof which is probably fire through the roof trusses. This has had some good lead time on the brothers...
The Fire Chief is already on scene, so why would anybody assume command is just officer suicide to me (Unless he is the EMS Chief) now thats funny! A good FIRE Commander has already done his 360 looking for signs of life safety, etc. before I arrive first due.
One year old equals "Lightweight Construction" The smoke profile is bad. Even on the unburned side. Volume is Heavy; Color is Black; Velocity is Under Pressure, so this all adds up to flashover within minutes if not SECONDS in the attic. Even if the attic is not burning the attic is ready to go with the unburned fuel within the smoke. So once it flashes, how much time do we have before the roof falls down on the interior attack?
This is what we call a BORN LOSER... no forced notification, no sprinklers, probably nobody home either, otherwise granny in the wheelchair would have smelled the fire which is obviously during the daytime hours a long time ago.
Tactically this is an EASY decision- If the on scene chief has his head up his ass and refuses to provide orders then I go MARGINAL MODE as the Company Officer. My engine pulls up directly to the scene, stretch a 1 3/4" line, driver charges that line and then hand jacks the short whip of LDH to the nearby hydrant for water supply, a crew of 3 (one being the officer) forces the front door, we sweep the unburned area with the TIC and bring a charged attack line for protection NOT extinguishment, we clear as much of the primary as possible and then pull out. The 5th firefighter on my (very liberal) crew will be pulling a 2.5" line and preparing to attack the garage, when I return with the entire first in crew (who evacuated the building). Once we are OUT it is a DEFENSIVE mode operation, big line(s) and protect the other 300K exposure out back with the next in pre-piped aerial.
Marginal Mode - Interior Search is less than 3-4 minutes with a well trained crew and TIC on a one-story ranch. Any ventilation provided on the first floor, which at the time of the picture has ZERO smoke showing will only expedite the fire coming and burning you and your crew!
FETC
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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You won't push the fire anywhere if you use a smooth bore tip on the deck gun.
A blitz attack with the deck pipe on the garage fire is an option, but it denies the option of moving a line later in the fire that a 2.5 gives you.
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About attacking from Side C vs. through the front door...
The garage and attic are involved, but the living spaces are not - at least as far as we can see from the Side A photos we have available. This means that a line between the garage and the rest of the house is going to cut off any fire in the downstairs. Stretching it through the front door is quicker than dragging it to the rear.
Another thing we don't know is if the rear door goes into the house or if it's an access through the heavily-involved garage, or if there are two rear doors. In my area, a lot of new lighweight construction has a single rear door that exits through the garage. If that's the case here, then an interior attack from Side C isn't going to work.
The chief should have done a 360 size-up and should know what the rear looks like, but we don't know.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Mulligan on
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Great question. Well with 5 I hit the plug onthe way by. I would start with a 2.5 to the front door with 2 men try to set up in the area between the living area and the garage. Start a search in the rear or knowing my first due and these home maybe try a window on the d side. But it really comes down to what we fin when we open the door. If the line can't get passed the door it maybe take a look in the windows if you see her make the grab if not move on. The fire appears to have a hold on the attic. So the situtation may change quickly. @nd due would start a 2nd 2.5 to the rear. Have the truck assist with the search if that happens. Concerns for the crew are failure of the trusses in the roof.
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