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Chief On Scene; Working Residential with Trapped Civilians
You’re the Company Officer (or Acting Officer) on the first-due Engine Company. Chief's on scene with a working fire in a single story wood frame residential occupancy. Confirmed by neighbors that there is an elderly female confined to a wheelchair in the residence possibly with a second resident. Hydrant is near the house as you arrive.
The house was built within the past year. Discuss your immediate actions and why. What’s your assignments based upon a (very liberal) five person crew. ( you weren’t short staffed today). What are your safety concerns, what’s the level of risk to your personnel and where a you going to go first? Where is your crew going to go first? Assuming a second due Engine Company is still 5 minutes out, with the Truck Company being heard in the distance. If you assume the Command Officer’s role; What’s your Incident Action Plan (IAP)? What’s the risk/benefit profile? What are your concerns for the occupants? For the firefighters? (Are you sweating yet?) “Affirmative; Engine, your on scene, now lets get to work”
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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The house and garage are 2 completely differant area's. This isn't a shack, it's a good size home. There is PLENTY of room to operate a master stream in the garage area and operate hand lines in the main home without taking a total defensive position
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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I would go with a blitz attack on this one. Lay a supply line going in, one pump op and one FF on the deck gun to try and kill the main body of fire. The other three might do a VES (vent, enter, search) operation through those two front windows on the 1-4 corner.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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Great discussions,I like the thread on the blitz attack...different thought processes BUT let's not forget the following; Confirmed by neighbors that there is an elderly female confined to a wheelchair in the residence possibly with a second resident. What MUST be your IMMEDIATE actions and why? What’s the risk/benefit profile telling you. The fire is, as a number of you pointed out confined to the garage, BUT progressing.....RAPIDLY. What's the greatest good that can be performed tactically to gain the greatest hold strategically based upon the assumed life safety issues affecting the (assumptions) that must be made regarding the occupants? Lots of really good strategic and tactical perspective and I thank everyone taking the time to think this through and offer the comments...this is what its all about...
Additionally, someone just posted the question about the Charlie side...its a GREAT option that needs consideration..along with the use of either the deck gun or a well placed handline....think about it.
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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Spence has a good point. The deck gun on our engine is mounted on top. The engineer can set it, lock it in & charge it, so that saves manpower. You don't have to flow 1000gpm. The flow can be adjusted to your needs allowing you to operate both a master stream & hand lines providing you can access enough water. Since there is a hydrant near the house (it says so in the scenario) a 5" supply line to the truck should give you all the water you would need.
I might go with the master stream and send an 1 1/2 safety line with the rescue team and let the second engine lay more lines for interior attack or exposure control. With a deck gun, you also have the advantage of the engine being placed to reach the fire with the gun and possilby pull a preconnect to either side. (I'm basing this on a 1250gpm pump w/1000 tank & a 250ft preconnect)
I am still going to send someone to the back of the house who may find a another door which could be a better point of entry for S&R. Sometimes a deck will have a slinding double door to possibly a family room or bedroom for someone in a wheel chair. That person may not be able to open that door alone to get out. I wish i could see the back side of it.
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The back side (Charlie side) holds the key strategic and tactical perspective, as does the ability to stop the progressive nature of the fire....
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...."try to knock the visible fire REALLY fast".... this buys you a lot of time to deal with S&R assignment.........with a greater degree of safety.
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Permalink Reply by J Mac on
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Since this what would you do? I guess there is no wrong answer. That being said, this is what I would do……..
Engine just past the front of the house leaving room for the truck. Stretch a line of the rig off of tank water right to the front door. Chauffer stays with the rig and one member stretches to secure a water source. My idea is to get a line between the fire and the occupant. I would try to make a search off of the line as deep as conditions would allow. If we make the grab and the house is a total loss we have met our mission. If at any time the risk overtakes the benefit. Back the line out and hit it with the deck gun.
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Help me out here Bro…..
I came across this discussion and didn’t read all 6 pages of messages before I made my post. What exactly about my answer do you have a problem with?
Stay safe,
J Mac
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OK here we go….
Speaking from personal experience when you pull up and family members meet you on the front lawn screaming that a loved one is inside you do everything possible to try and make the grab. Is this the new tactic you talk about?
The school I came from stressed placing a line between the fire and the victims. You know protect them and fight it from the unburned side….
Did they teach you something different at Montour Falls?
Where are you going with this?
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Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
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My first due not cause i am one but cause i want it in front prefered would be a truck at the foot of the driveway and the tower /stick at the garage door taking in the what appears to be from that shot I have at least one car that took out the garage , my second do drop 5" to truck and its self water flowing and attack line 1 to the front door and attack 2 to the rear of garage ...attack line 1 at the door making entrance and combining their attack to keep fire pushed to garage from house while exterior units dowse and drown, all additional man power are gaining entrance for search and rescue of vics, team 1 through front door team 2 through and to right. my top concern is for my crews naturally but want 2 alive vics brought out as well with all hope..upon fast team arrival they would be set up on the grass to right of home in teams of 6 each (hopefully) at this point crews not engaged will sart venting the homes windows . also paramedics and 2 squads would be requested, additional mutual aid to stand by quarters for any additional calls, county rehab and man power staged by second due placed after truck..various tasks as needed to follow.
Looking at what we can see and not what we know since it is not our town or we don't know the developments series in models and taking in to account elderly and handicapped to a chair I am looking at it as single story home and the roof which in another 15 mins might be gone is a mock upstairs look dormer look. which would make a perfect chimmney alley way effect for smoke and fire to run through, upon attack lines opening up and seeing if some of that black smoke eases or if it even looks to being pushed the wrong way will be a factor in evacuating and going defensive and pulling search as well as interior attack if they were able to gain entry.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Perkel on
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First transmit the working fire and request the additional resources needed beyond the initial alarm including a FAST Team or RIT. A 360 should be done as a size up looking for extent of fire any hazards and of course signs of the victims. The first Engine should hit the hydrant and stretch a line which needs to enter the structure and protect the living quarters while a search team removes the victims. The second line should support the first line and when in place allow the first line to advance to extinguish the fire. I would be cautious not to place a line in service on the exterior which might oppose the interior line. The first truck company shold support search and rescue ops while also initiate ventilation. Assign all additional companies as needed for additional ops or to relieve the first in crews. Also don't forget to cover the unmanned stations during this operation.
Sounds easy but teamwork and coordination from all involved will determine the outcome. Good trained firefighters won't hurt your cause either.
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My first priority is S&R. We are going to attempt that on the C side. I am going to concentrate on that with the crew I have. Once that is accomplished we are going to do some serious fire fighting. I see that the garage is involved, I'm sure there is some extension but I am not quite ready to call it done yet. I may be optomistic.
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