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Chief On Scene; Working Residential with Trapped Civilians
You’re the Company Officer (or Acting Officer) on the first-due Engine Company. Chief's on scene with a working fire in a single story wood frame residential occupancy. Confirmed by neighbors that there is an elderly female confined to a wheelchair in the residence possibly with a second resident. Hydrant is near the house as you arrive.
The house was built within the past year. Discuss your immediate actions and why. What’s your assignments based upon a (very liberal) five person crew. ( you weren’t short staffed today). What are your safety concerns, what’s the level of risk to your personnel and where a you going to go first? Where is your crew going to go first? Assuming a second due Engine Company is still 5 minutes out, with the Truck Company being heard in the distance. If you assume the Command Officer’s role; What’s your Incident Action Plan (IAP)? What’s the risk/benefit profile? What are your concerns for the occupants? For the firefighters? (Are you sweating yet?) “Affirmative; Engine, your on scene, now lets get to work”
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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You just hit another tactical issue very squarely on the head. Ventilation. I have come to realize that there are fire fighters who don't understand ventilation. There was a video or picture with several fire fighters standing on a burning roof cutting a very nice square hole in what was left of the roof. I didn't quite understand that tactic even though there didn't seem to be fire directly below the vent the rest of the building seemed to be in a free burn stage. What did I miss?
Some people don't seem to understand when to use PPV. On a mutual aid call, the fire was out or nearly so until they introduced PPV & suddenly the entire end of the structure was in flames. The original fire had been contained to 1 room, the ventilation picked up embers and blew them down the hallway, with enough oxygen introduced to reignite the fire. Oh, there was no opening for the smoke to escape.
Some how it doesn't seem to sink in that the entire entrance or ventilation point should be sealed with air, otherwise it isn't positive pressure,it just air. Sitting a fan in a doorway pushing air IN is not PPV.
My most recent discussion on PPV/ventilation was on a fire where the ceiling fan/light had shorted out & caused insulation in the attic to smolder, there was actually very little FIRE. We pulled down the ceiling around the fan put the fire out with very little water & very little damage. There was still a lot of smoke seeping from the eaves in several places. We finally located the vent to the attic @ the back of the house. In opening it up found that more insulation was involved than could be seen from the bathroom. With a long pike pole they pulled out more insulation. Then we set up a fan to clear the smoke out of the residence. One of our officers told me that we should have ventilated earlier. I still don't understand why. Again, what'd I miss?
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Permalink Reply by Bob Allard on
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Lets start with a 2 1/2 and then a crew around by side "D" with a 1 3/4 and see if we can find anyone inside the structure. You may want to consider Mutual Aid to fill your halls and/or to the scence. Also while waiting lets really find out if there are trap personnel in the structure, still we will do a search and rescue but if no one is home or all are acounted for lets go ahead and try and stop this from spreading if possible. May want to think about call the gas, electric companies , if its propane may want to find the shut offs.
Thats a start
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Permalink Reply by Ken Wagner on
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I know that it sounds bad but the general rule of thumb is RISK ALOT TO SAVE ALOT, RISK A LITTLE TO SAVE A LITTLE. My take on the pics is that the 1st pic shows a kitchen off of the back of the garage, and there is fire blowing from the eaves there, I would have to say that I would start with knocking the heavy fire down 1st, I would open the front door but I would not send a crew in. The building is too well involved and could flash in the front portion of the structure ALPHA-DELTA side at any time. My decision is based on the light weight construction of today. The house also appears to be a ranch style and not a two story. Very difficult decision though.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Turner on
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Safety Concerns : Thick black fast moving smoke = plenty of fuel being burnt. Black smoke is also curling out of the eaves on the alpha delta corner. This shows that the fire is burning throughout the attic. The garage half of the house is a total loss. Don't even worry about putting water there if a rescue is going to be attempted. Crews to the front door and the charlie delta corner to see if there are windows to reach the elderly woman. The only places I see a feasible rescue are the front windows under the smoking eaves, MAYBE the front door, and I don't know what is going on in the rear. If a rescue was to be made, time to pick up the hydrant with the first engine would not be possible. Unfortunately I think this house is past a rescue, but all windows would be checked to see what can be seen, and anything that could be done with a certain degree of safety would be done. If the house has not flashed over, flashover is imminent. A Defensive attack would be taken.
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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On arrival roll 2 alarms,check 360*, one for suppression /EMS and one for R.I.C. I would have the engineer(FFE) secure a LDH supply while I send 2 units as a truck co. FF3 and FF4 are now my truck co. The LT. and FF2 would take a blitz line 2 1/2 to frt. door. I should have the FF3 and FF4 take a 6' hook and a can to primary search right hand of the residence.
once FFE establishes a line and pump is going steady have him report conditions to interior. FF3 and FF4 should be on constant Eval. of fire structure conditions. We have to keep in mind of the exposure time of the trusses. No one should be to the left of the frt. door. The LT. and FF2 are to only cut the fire and if lucky enough to push it back out the burned side. The fire is to progressed for that (wishful thinkin'). If conditons are too bad to enter or search see how many windows we can V.E.S. (vent,entry,search). If we can V.E.S. we might find one of the vicitm's/casulty.
Over all I would say survival would be in the right side. C & D- C- A & D sides. The garage is soooo close to colapse. another think to think about is building constuction. Are we familiar with the Homes in the area, side note we usally check some homes in development to see the const. materials being used Do we know? light weight trusses are not going to last long under that fire load. I would thoght that lght. wt. trusses would have failed over the garage by now.
The house is lost fight only long enough to search if nothing found defensive. unless help is there and your making headway.
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Permalink Reply by Mark on
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I know I’m going to get lots of flack for this but here it goes. I’d drop one FF off at the hydrant and establish a positive water source and lay in. positioned at the front of the house I’d order my engineer to deck gun the garage with quick water. I’d have the other 2 FF stretch a 2 or 2 ½ inch while I performed a 360. Then I’d make entry with the 2 FF and perform an aggressively but safe search. Monday night quarterbacking at it finest. lol
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Permalink Reply by Zachary Wolf on
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well being a truckie my first instinct is to say two pull 2.5 for attack and search protection two doing search. once truck gets there (depending on staffing we always have six) two additional attack lines one to garage and another inside with last two going in and meeting with engine crew search team and if they found anything possibly both vics together help with victim removal
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Permalink Reply by Jay Lowry on
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I'm very late to the discussion.
1. The best chance the occupants have, if the reports are true they are inside, is to put water on the fire. Start there with the engine.
2. A primary search will have to be a quick and dirty search. The emphasis is on quick especially as it relates to conditions on the inside. The truck company sounding in the distance will perform the primary.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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First of all, I am a truck guy and I have a truck mentality, so please forgive me if I seemed to be biased. OK, I am the Lt of a 5 FF Engine crew(Glorious!) 1st due at a working structure of new construction with reports of victims trapped with a Truck approaching from the distance. OK, in a perfect world on a perfect day with perfect conditions, we would wrap the hydrant and lay pass the front of the home leaving the front for the Truck. I would trust that the Chief already did a 360 and I would have 2 FF stretch an 1 3/4" line to the door while myself and 1 FF would commit to forcible/entry and search for life because the Truck is not there yet. Those FF on the line would position themselves between the fire and the rest of the home protecting the residents and our means of ingress/egress. The Operator would charge the 1 3/4" line, stretch a 2 1/2" line up the driveway and charge it as well, he would then open his hydrant, throw his ground ladders off of his rig and into the front yard. I would notify Command and all incoming that we are committed to search/rescue and that the 2nd due Engine will man the 2 1/2" and begin to attack the fire and stretch a secondary line inside for protection. The first due Truck needs to assist with a coordinated search, secure utilities, and prepare to ventilate once the attack is underway. All companies would need to be well advised that this is new construction that has been burning for a good while, so property conservation is not our priority. Let's search/rescue and then GET OUT! This is new construction probably with light weight truss and the fire has already reached into those trusses. I also need a second alarm because our 1st alarm is committed and will need help. Hopefully between the 1st and 2nd alarms there will be 3 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 RIT, 2 Chiefs, 2 Medics within minutes. This is based on my very humble and limited experiences. This is a great photo for training. Do you mind if I use it?
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Jay,
I'm late, too, but I think you have it. The chief should do the 360 since he's the first unit on scene. With 5, we can have one hit the hydrant, one pump operator, two stretch a 2.5 inch line with a large smoothbore tip and hit the garage fire from the outside. Once they get a quick hit on the fire, they loop the line and leave one firefighter with it. The second firefighter leaves the 2.5 inch line, takes tools, and forces the front door. The engine officer stretches a 1.75 inch line to the front door. THe 1.75 inch has a fog nozzle so that the crew can choose between knocking down fire or creating a fog pattern barricade between the fire and the rescue attempt. The officer, hydrant firefighter, and the firefighter who forced the front door do a quick-and-dirty primary search. If they find victims, one firefighter can hold the interior fire with the 1.75 inch line and the other two can make the rescue. If this is necessary, the 2.5 gets shut down and that line's nozzleman joins the nozzleman on the interior line to keep a team of two inside.
Despite the large volume of fire in the garage and the "Black Fire" in the overhead, conditions in the downstairs look tenable for the occupants, especially in the window at the D-A corner.
I have to respectfully disagree with Chief Kriska on PPV on this one - there is too much fire for the PPV fan to be effective, and if the man door from the garage to the house is still intact, I'm keeping it shut.
If there's a second rescue on this one, the truck will probably have to make it.
Once the primary is done, if there's still a large volume of fire, we'll get additional companies to add more handlines to the attack. I'd strongly consider going defensive after the rescue attempt - a well-involved overhead fire like this will dissassemble the trusses pretty quickly.
RIT - no manpower for it initially, and if we go defensive, we won't need it later.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on
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Great reply and tatical insights. Do the most good in the least amount of time.
This is a very good perspective and indicates a good woking knowledge of FF tactics and reading a scene: "Despite the large volume of fire in the garage and the "Black Fire" in the overhead, conditions in the downstairs look tenable for the occupants, especially in the window at the D-A corner." The same is try about the PPV issues...there isn't enough time to do all the things "we'd like to do" remember there are trapped occupants, the fire is growing exponentially and if left unchecked-it will afffect all other strategic and tactical IAPs.
We're getting close to completing the run on this scenario, I'll post some more photos and what actually happened...( NOTE: Some real good strategic and tactical perspective have been posted) The clearest message I'll make at this point is to remember; You may have a lot of great tactical ideas, BUT the most important factor when confronted by a fast moving fire and civilians in distress..is to get water on the fire to stop its forward progress and buy some time to hopefully affect a successful rescue and make the best use of the manpower you have. More later.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Fish #89 on
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Well, if the truck company is being heard in the distance, this means that they are right on our heels, and they can handle the search and rescue once they get there. Chances are that they will be off the truck and ready just about the time we finish hitting the hydrant, stretching the lines, and charging them at the door . With a crew of 5, obviously we have the drive serve as the pump operator. This leaves me with a crew of 4. As we pull up to the house id have one get out and wrap the hydrant as we pass and stretch the supply line and hook it up. Once he has the line tied into the hydrant he can help his partner finish stretching the 1 1/2 and back his partner up on the line. Me being the officer, would help my partner stretch the line, and back him up on the nozzle so i can give him instructions once inside and be able to relay instructions from the chief to my crew. once inside id advance towards the garage with my line, leaving the other line behind me to protect the search team and my means of ingress/egress. I would let the second engine in stretch the bigger lines once on scene. using the smaller lines would make it easier for us to get right in and help protect the search team while they do their job.
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