I know that there are more than three FFN members who have a college degree or want one

The College-Educated Firefighters group only has three current members and it is not very active. I'd like to see that change. If you have a degree or would like to achieve one, how about joining us and sharing some information.

Formal education is going to become more and more important to anyone who wants to be a fire service leader in the future. If we want respect from other professions, we need to have the members pursue college educations.

It's time to stop lurking and join.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on October 18, 2008 at 7:35pm

In Ohio there are 20 schools that offer degrees in fire science. University of Cincinnati & University of Akron are included. The others are vocational or community/techichnical colleges offering associate degrees. There are over 800 colleges/universities in the state. I thought Case Western Reserve had a Fire Protection Engineering program but it seems I was wrong about that.

Marshall University had a fire science program years ago, there was also one @ Morgantown. Marshall's went first but WVU doesn't offer one now either.

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on October 19, 2008 at 9:29am

Jenny,

There are numerous colleges that offer undergrad degress in fire science or a related field.
What I was talking about is the issue of graduate degrees, and especially doctoral degrees.

I've heard it said that the differences between undergrad, master;s and doctoral degrees boils down to the following;

Undergrad degrees teach you how to learn knowledge.
Master's degrees teach you how to teach and administrate knowledge.
Doctoral degrees teach you how to create knowledge. (through scientific research)

The predominance of law enforcement and national security over fire and EMS in the homeland security field has several causative factors. One of the major factors is the relative scarcity of fire and EMS master's degrees and the absence of fire-related doctoral degrees. Until we correct the causation, we're probably not going to fix the problem.

Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on October 20, 2008 at 4:19am

Ben,
My point was that out of over 800 higher education institutions in the state I live in, only 20 that offer fire science. Most of them are community & technical colleges. If a person is considering a higher degree they need to go somewhere else. That usually means relocating for a while @ least during studies. People do that all the time if they feel it is worth it. Several other factors in making that decission are the job market in the particular area you want to work in or if you DO want to work/live where the jobs ARE. Other factors are housing, finances, available jobs or internships in that area, transportation, families or a number of other personal considerations.

You made some very good points. I understand what you are saying. The question is, how do you begin to fix the problem?

To consider a new program, particularly for an advanced degree such as a Masters or Doctorate, an institution must realize the need for that program and who does the accreditation. Then there is research to find if students will enroll in a new discipline and where/how to find and attract instructors to develop, teach, administer & recruit for the program. What else is necessary to support it? Will it pay to begin something new? Where will they look for funding? It is difficult to get a new program off the ground & to keep it running. They don't want the risk of failure.

Permalink Reply by Peter Lupkowski on November 12, 2008 at 4:13pm

And I thought that I was the only number cruncher in the bunch! BS in Accounting, and Masters in Health Care Admin have pulled me into the EMS side more than I originally wanted, but we're fire based and it's all good.
I am constantly amazed by the greeting I get when I speak at any gathering: "you're a fireman and you have a Masters?" I always hope that I use my brain much more than my brawn.
Stay Safe

Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on November 12, 2008 at 5:01pm

Jenny,

The cops have Criminal Justice degrees in almost every major state college and university, and not a few private ones.

We need to permeate the fire service with the need for higher education.
That will take care of the "no degrees offered locally" problem.

However, the National Fire Academy FESHE program, of which my chief and I are graduates, can get you to the bachelor's degree level by traveling the internet.

Me, I'm done with school...at least that's what I tell myself.

Ben

Permalink Reply by Mike Ward on December 10, 2008 at 6:27pm

Hi Ben!

Let's see ... I flunked out of the Fire Protection Engineering program at the University of Maryland while living in a fire station ... who saw that coming!

Thirteen years after graduating high school I got my BS in Fire Science Management through the Degree-at-a-Distance program at the University College side of the University of Maryland (UMUC). Started teaching fire science/emt/paramedic at the community college.

Eleven years (and one divorce) later I got my Masters of General Administration in State and Local Government from UMUC. Retired from the county fire department five years later.

My part-time job as an educator became my second career. I spent five years as a fire science program head and worked with a large urban county that has the most complex career development program in the states. I know that because they paid me to study other departments/colleges/universities.

Along the way I became an American Council on Education evaluator (fire science, hazmat, ems) and too-well versed on the issues of academic accreditation and professional development. I chair the EMS Management Curriculum Committee that is part of the NFA FESHE initative.

If some one told me 15 years ago I would be the director of the Emergency Health Service Programs at George Washington University, I would say that one of us is suffering brain trauma.

The process of education opens doors and opportunities. The procedure of formal education occasionally resemble middle age guilds http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/history/middleages/guilds.html

Permalink Reply by Mike Ward on December 10, 2008 at 6:39pm

The predominance of law enforcement degrees reflects decades of federal funding through the LEAA and other programs.

Oklahoma State University has finished the process and is offering a PhD in Fire and Emergency Management Administration http://femp.okstate.edu/

Permalink Reply by Bill Brierton on December 24, 2008 at 9:17am

I'm still plodding along. There are only two things that limit my ability to obtain a degree. The first is time. WIth a full time job, the never ending "honey do" list, and trying to remain an active volunteer leaves little time for much else. The second is funding. Going to college even through a distance learning program isn't cheap. I know UMUC does offer a "pay as you go" type of program but I have enough bills to pay so for the time being its one class at a time. So far two certificates one in management one in Public Fire Protection and a third pending the final grade in Project Management. This spring its back to the "fire" side cause it is a subject that I love.

Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on May 25, 2009 at 7:10pm

I am finising up my last class with Columbia Southern University and my degree will be complete.
I orignially went to Eastern Kentucky University right out of high school but after 2 years and due to money issues I had to come home and get a job (mom and dad got layed off in the same month). Once I got my financial situation under control (well enough to afford school) which took about 7 years.I went back to CSU.

I think CSU is the best program out there for working stiffs. It is the cheapest and most accomadating. I work 2 jobs, and have 2 kids so going to class is not an option for me. With CSU I can do school work at my pace and when I can. I also got credit for fire training certs which was a major help.

Your right in that we need education....the fire service is going through a transition were while physical skills and abilities will always be needed at the field level but managers with higher education are needed to get us the money and staffing we need to do the things we do. All levels of government had highly educated people and in order to communicate with them and even the playing field our leadership needs to get educated.

If you do not wish to pursue higher education than thats fine but you should put being in a leadership role in your FD to the side as well. Being able to stretch a handline has nothing to do with balancing a budget and presenting things to a county manager. After next week when my BS is done I do not know were I will go from there. Grand Canyon University offers an online Masters in Advanced Fire Admin but it is kinda expensive.

Permalink Reply by Lee Huff on May 27, 2009 at 12:02am

As for me, I'm working towards an Associate's Degree in Nursing. I Start the actual program this fall. Unfortunately, I will have to re-take my Organic Chemistry, as I got a D on my final.

Permalink Reply by LadyChaplain on May 28, 2009 at 12:43am