CDL's for driving larger engines? update 10-19-08

Our new engine is a sterling cab, wieghs well over 26000 pounds I'm not sure of the excact wieght and has air brakes. At my day job I have to have CDLs to drive an f-750 that wieghs 28000 pounds and has air brakes. Tn law states any vehicle with air brakes or excedes the wieght limit of 26000 pounds you have to have a class b cdl to drive it. But there is an excemption for emergency vehicles that just doesnt make sense to me. does anyone elses dept. require cdls or anyone think they should. I think you should have to have cdls and have evoc tought by a state instructor before you can drive. Just my opinion.
10-19-08 I contacted The Tennessee DMV and they told me that a non cdl driver could drive an engine to an emergency under the excemtion law but would be breaking the law if they drove back to the station to get fuel or was just out driving. The dmv also if a non cdl driver was involved in an accident driving a large truck they would be driving a commercial vehicle without a license and could lose their license or have to do jail time. They also told me all that was needed was a class be cdl in Tn thats only 2 written test and a short on road driving test.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Harkey on October 15, 2008 at 6:02pm

Below is a typical CDL training sylibus, as a volunteer F/F I would not have time to spend 2+ weeks taking this type course. maybe if it were geared toward Emergency response vehicles you could take out the unnessacary stuff like log books and such, it may could be short enough to allow people like me to attend.

40 hours classroom
• Orientation
• C.D.L. Permit Study
• Endorsement Study
• Job Procurement
• Log Book, Hours of Service
• Map Reading, Trip Planning
• DOT Regulations

120 hours yard and road skills • Hazard Perception
• Night Operation
• Extreme Driving Conditions
• Pre-trip Inspection
• Railroad Crossing Safety
• Accident Reports
• Highway Safety
• Pre-trip Inspection
• Couple/Uncouple
• Straight Backing
• 45 Degree Backing
• 90 Degree Backing
• Blindside Backing
• Serpentine Backing
• Parallel Parking
• Double Trailers
• Shifting
• Double Clutching
• Turns
• Uphill/Downhill • Ramps
• Lane Changes
• Space Management
• Bobtail
• Hazard Perception

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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on October 15, 2008 at 7:10pm

Illinois requires a Class B (non-CDL) for drivers of fire apparatus. This is due to the stringent driver's training that F.D.'s have here in Illinois. My F.D. also requires us to be FAE (Fire Apparatus Engineer) certified in order to drive.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Harkey on October 15, 2008 at 7:19pm

Brian,
That makes more sense to me than a full CDL program. and you can still get a certification.

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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on October 15, 2008 at 7:46pm

Justin,

In trouble legally, not if the law allows it. In trouble because the truck was damaged or people injured, yes, bad for all plus civil lawsuits can be a circus and cost heavily even if won. Every FD should have a back up plan to avoid using a non CDL driver even in emergencies. If a FD found itself in that predicament a better plan needs to be made. If still it found itself there, hopefully the fire was responded to and put out safely and getting the truck back is now not an emergency and time for a even better plan. Like not allowing a very inexperienced non CDL driver to respond to a non life threatening emergency or wait for a CDL driver or call for mutual aid? Has anyone been in this position before? TCSS

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Permalink Reply by Arnulfo Huerta on October 15, 2008 at 9:27pm

I used to drive a 50 000 pound prevost motor coach without a cdl.

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Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on October 15, 2008 at 10:44pm

The license you have described must be for a class a tractor trailer tought through a truck driving school. When I got my license I went to the dmv and got a cdl test book studied it and took my written test. Then with no requirement on driving hours took my driving test. For a class b you wouldnt need any of the trailer, log book or trip planning junk also if you take your test in an automatic you wont need to worry about any double clutching or shifting questions. All you would need for a class b is to take the cdl genreal knowledge and air brake written test then when you was ready take the driving test in an engine. Where you wouldnt need to worry about backing or parallel parking just a basic vehicle control test. And simple pre trip.

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Permalink Reply by Justin Buck on October 15, 2008 at 10:47pm

either we have to have drivers ops class or our trainning officer will train us to drive the trucks. but it would be nice if they did make us have a cdl.

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Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on October 15, 2008 at 10:54pm

A class b is all that would be needed, but in Tn a class B is considered a cdl

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on October 15, 2008 at 10:59pm

In New York a CDL is not required to operate emergency apparatus regardless of size. There was some talk about making it mandatory, however it hasn't gone anywhere. That's the good news; there is also NO seat belt use requirement for emergency vehicles at present. And I don't think the law specifies whether a vehicle is responding to or returning from an emergency; it's an emergency vehicle, period.

I do not have a CDL. I would get one if it were required, however looking at the training syllabus (which shows 4 weeks of training) I would have to take a leave of absence from my full-time (non-FD) job in order to attend full-time classes. That would be a big loss of $$ for my family.

But what is it that we're trying to do? Do people make the assumption that a CDL automatically guarantees a safe driver?

There is no substitute for a thorough in-house driver training program that familiarizes the driver with the apparatus and all of its quirks and warts, and how to get it over the road safely in all conditions. As was stated earlier, a good FAO may not pass the CDL test, and a good CDL-carrying OTR driver may not be good in emergency conditions.

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Permalink Reply by John L. VanAuken on October 15, 2008 at 11:00pm

On our Dept. We do have a yearly D.O.T. style driveing test that We all have to pass. The only vehicle We have that would fall under a C.D.L. is our 4,000 gal Tender. Our 2 Engines and small Tender are Air Brakes as well but I think are under 26,000 lbs and all 4 are exempt. There is only 3 people that are allowed to drive the big Tender. I myself do have a C.D.L. and drive for a liveing, so I tend to drive the big Tender the most. it dose help that no one else realy likes to drive it. But none the less, If cant make a call that needs it, one of the other two takes the Tender out. Our smaller Tender any one but newbies can drive, till approved, same goes for both Engines. I can in some ways agree with needing a C.D.L. expecialy with the bigger Tenders. That much water moven around even with the baffles in the tanks, can really cause probs for a person if not trained in how to stop properly and in cornering. But I do feel that even under the exempt rule. That every person on the Dept. should go though training and be familier with all aspects of the vehicles on his or hers Dept.

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Permalink Reply by Darryll Hamlin on October 15, 2008 at 11:18pm

Oh my god yes I do think that fire fighters should have to have a cdl to drive apparatus i can't think of one reason why they shouldn't. from a former excavating co owner that had to have and train and employ cdl-a drivers. with so many accidents in the fire service usually young drivers I wish it was a law.neither of my two fire depts nor the ambulance service I work for require a comercial drivers license. we also have a mandatory driving class done yearly required to drive apparatus, but thats not enough in my book. you take care,drive safe and god bless.