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Do you think a 18 or 19 year should be the chief of a volunteer fire dept.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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A lot of good thoughts in this discussion: http://station.firefighternation.com/forum/topic/show?id=889755%3AT...
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Permalink Reply by David Ratcliffe on
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Well I would give my Chief Position to any one that wants it. I had no experience at all in the fire department the only thing that i had was military experience not sure if that was it or what. But as far as a 18 yr old being chief I dont think it would be a good ideal there is alot of responsibility there more than a 18 yr old should have on his shoulders. If thats what his department wants then i would have to support the department they are the ones that have to work for the 18yr old and i would hope his department would look at it that way
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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First, I am not a proponent of voting on ANY positions, even when I was a vollie we had a set-up very similiar to the fulltime neighboring fire departments in which you had to meet a certain criteria, meaning certification levels, years of experience on that department, then allowed to apply, interview, and take an assessment center. Then ranked by an overall score and the top candidate would be offered the position and appointed by the town's HR and/or Town Manager. Voting is just too political and what you get is who is more liked and usually not the best candidate, most experienced, or the most qualified to keep us safe. Therefore you have people making decisions that are not ready to make... and the constant change in leadership is terrible for building a foundation.
Now getting back to this question, I clearly remember this topic before so I am not going to re-type my entire previous point. But if your department is seriously looking at an 18 or 19 year old firefighter as the best candidate for the position of fire chief, then the town, the organization and the forefathers of the fire department have failed to prepare for the future.
Fire departments whether paid, paid-call or volunteer need to be run administratively as a business. Whether you have a 15,000 dollar budget or a 3 million dollar annual budget, an 18 year old has absolutely no experience running a 15K or 1 million dollar business at the age of 18? Many do not even own a checking account yet... So before every 18 year old firefighter that feels I am totally wrong, jumps on my back... hold on a minute, We are talking about a business, now add in internal and external politics, personalities, budgets, inspections, liability, law suits, etc. But whoa.. now if your are in a small fire department that is really considering you as the chief, what amount of experience can you possibly have with 1 year of experience as a full member, because before 18 your experience was in the form of an Explorer for a few years with very little experience and no real responsiblity. Just because you took FF1 or FF2, even an NIMS ICS-700 class does absolutely nothing to prepare you to organizationally develop an IAP, act as a safety officer, command and control mutliple units or alarms not to mention RUN a fire, technical rescue, hazmat or a MCI.
In most fulltime fire departments, that even run alot of calls, like 3000-4000 emergencies per year (guys who run 400 or 500 calls individually per year) they are forced to wait 5 full years before they are even considered to apply for a line officers position as a LIEUTENANT. Not even close to the responsibilities of a Fire Chief. Around my way, we see neighboring Fire Chief's who are voted in annually who are NOT qualified to be a probie on my shift.
18 or 19 please.... train as much as you can, take classes, get all the certifications, run on every call possible, get a degree, gain life experiences outside the FD, and test your way up the ladder and get experience throughout the promotional steps and then step up if you feel you are still the MAN.
Along the way you might find the grass isn't greener at the top...
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Wright on
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Well , I've read all the post and some I think are right and some are way out in the far left side of the field.
I've been on the job 33 years,25 of these years as Asst Chief and now Chief. In 25 years I've been in court 3 times over incidents , none the department was found at fault. I've got over 2300 hours training and I still attend training,it's like money in the bank when you in the witness box. I've got no beef with a younger officer,but boys and girls this is not no sandlot ball game, there is 1 lawyer for every 5 people in the Untied States, look on the back of any public bus or taxie cab, they are begging for a case.
The Chief of any fire department is a very inportant title, you are the guy who is driving the bus, it's your baby when things go south, and it's the skin and money they are going to get if you or your department is found to be at fault. In some department it is you being a " Good Guy or Gal " not the amount of training you have or the years of service when it comes to electing a Chief. The state of Kentucky has finely came out with two classes for newly elected Chief. Even with the years I've got I attended them both and learned somethings, you are never to smart to learn somemore. When I started this trip 33 years ago, I had a full head of hair, today a cue ball has more hair than I do. Boy and Girls cover your but, Cause the shark { lawyers } have a mouth of razer sharp teeth and they don't mind taking a bite out of any ass.........
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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What a ridiculous question... why on earth would you be asking such a thing? No one in their right mind would put a 18 or 19 year old into the Fire Chief's position. This is something that is earned through years of training and experience. The only way this could be a possibility is if for whatever reason, the good ol' boy network is alive and well. If this is true, I would question whether or not I want to be part of a club verses part of a fire department. I am so very sorry if the question is in fact reality... certainly there must be someone who has the training and experience to run a department... if not, it's time to do a better job preparing for the future. Like an old fireman friend of mine used to always say, "Failure to prepare is preparing for failure..."
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Good referencing Joe. Once again, your the historical expert on FFN. Thanks! ms
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Permalink Reply by Michael Vito on
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No way amigos! In my experience, I am now currently a Fire OIC (us captain or Lieutenant equivalent ) is tougher for me at the beginning. So how much more - being a chief.
If possible, remember this - its easy to impose respect but it is hard to earn their respect .
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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NO....Sorry but there is NO way that a person that young has the experience or the maturity to hable that kind of responsibility....If I am going inside then I want the person with the knowledge AND experience to make the right calls.....Hell, my ass depends on it...!! I know...in a lot of Departments the Chief is chosen by election...unfortunatly sometimes it is a poularity thing and not an issue of..."Who would do the best job...? " I think the Chief should have gone through the ranks....ie...Capt...Foreman....2nd Asst. Chief...1st Asst Chief.....and have the training involved......Sorry to all those that have the position or the desire to have it at a younng age...this is just my outlook......Stay safe and remember to keep the faith.....Paul
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Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on
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Mike it happened . He is over here close to us . He has asked for help from some of us chiefs and of course we will . I think the oldest one on that dept. is about 30 now and there is very few of them . He might have 7 people to work with .
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Damon, do any of the others have more training/experience? If not, then I suppose that he's all they've got! At least he's asked for assistance, so he must be aware of his shortcomings. If the others elected him, hopefully they'll all back him by doing the right thing. But what a situation!
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Permalink Reply by Paul on
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Well, if they have been fighting fires for ten years and he has a business degree. Why not. In a nut shell, a fire chief should have spent plenty of time next to their fellow firefighters to know what they go through in house and on the fire ground. A chief that has no fire time is as good as the politicians that regulate our jobs from behind a desk...And as for a politician, a chief should have some type of training is business management and finances. A chief is essentially a politician because they answer to the members that govern your town/ city. You have to ride both side of the fence and that’s a tough job that takes experience. So honestly, No I don’t think someone that young should be chief because they have not had enough time to learn to deal with those issues.
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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No.
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