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Fog or Smooth Bore Nozzles
What does your dept use on the initial attack inside a structure fire? Fog or Smooth Bore. Lets hear the pros and cons and your preference
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brandon Roark on
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ok bernice (just kidding, I guess it is fun to give random nicknames;), I mean exactly what i say. A 1.125 (Yes, a 1 1/8" tip) at an increased pressure may be a little difficult for some to manage but with an understanding of nozzle reaction and how to midigate it, it's quite the manageable line. This is exactly the type of line where we start talking about gallons per second, not gallons per minute. I encourage you to give it an experiment before casting it to the wayside. Puts a hurt on alot fire and is a great line for cleaning out a drop ceiling.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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OK Brandi (hey, random nicknames are fun) this is a 1 1/8" inch tip at 125-150 psi... on a 1 3/4 inch line? 2 1/2"?
Work with me; I'm not casting it by the wayside, I am seeking clarification as to what you are talking about.
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Permalink Reply by Will2745 on
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Being a newbie firefighter, lol, i prefer an adjustable nozzle...have used both in initial attack on house fires,,and prefer a fog pattern,,at around 30 degrees on initial attack,,,then adjust to straight stream as situation changes.
Also have to remember us small volly depts dont have an unlimited supply of water to flood a fire with, so we have to work effectively to the best of our abilities. Oh,,,btw,,,that newbie thing is just 50 yrs in service.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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On our 1st out Engine, we have both fog and SB lines and it is the Officer's discretion. My personal belief, is SB over fog any day of the week. They both have their applications, but I prefer SB due to mobility(using less pressure lightens the hose up), reach, and penetration. I know that one can use Foam, vent with a fog, and that it uses less GPM, but if I can reach the rear of an hallway without crawling through the heat then I can always vent afterwards. And as far as the (Combo) nozzles with SB and Fog capabilites, we just recently got those at my part time FD. I read the literature and saw the demo but until it gets proven at a serious fire with alot of heat and no visibility, then the verdict is still out. But, as a Truck guy who rides an Engine every so often, I'll take a roof hook over a nozzle any day.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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We were experimenting the other night with "water supply"...we wanted to see if we could dump massive amounts of water on a structure (Sort of surround and drown)....Found out that 2 people can handle quite nicely a 2 1/2 with a smooth bore 15/16 tip and 170 lbs of pressure....(puts out 325 gal/min) it penetrates as well as a deck gun and can blow the roof off if necessary...talk about penetration...we then did a switch from water to foam (pressure max at 100 lbs ) in mid stream....learned a lot...had 3 teams and was quite impressed with the water we flowed off one engine....and a whole lot more mobile than setting up the gun......Paul
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forgot to mention....we were sitting on this baby.....at 170 lbs we didn't want it to get out of the stall so to speak.....LOL Paul
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Permalink Reply by Eric on
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I am a huge fan of smooth bore nozzles. I have to say that this is because I've used them far more than I have the fog nozzles. As a few have said, you cannot beat the penetration that you're gona get from the smooth bore. I know that the fog nozzle can open up to straight stream, but there is still that little bit of air in the middle of the stream, causing less water to make it to the fire. On the other hand though as many have said, you're not going to get the protection of a fog nozzle from the smooth bore. I still favor smooth bore, but again it is probably only because that is what I am used to.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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I like a real combination nozzle - the ones with both smooth bore and fog capability. These come in either smoothbore-through-the-fog types, or in a breakapart where the pistol grip has a smoothbore nozzle built into it. The fog thread on to the smoothbore. If you need the smoothbore, you just shut the bail, remove the fog tip, and open back up with the smoothbore. Some of these are available in low pressure (75 PSI fog tip designs) that are much easier to operate than traditional medium pressure fog nozzle designs, too.
If the new-tech combo fog/SB nozzle isn't available, I like the fog better. In the hands of a well-trained nozzleman, it reaches and penetrates almost as well as a SB, plus it offers you the ability to shield yourself from flashover with a fog cone. That's something a SB can never do.
It's not a huge consideration, but you can't hydraulically ventilate in overhaul mode with a SB, either.
The nozzleman is a much bigger factor in effective interior fire attack than the nozzle.
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Permalink Reply by Capt.Alex Arnold on
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Ah yes let the debate continue. This one is going to go on has long as the volie-career debate, I see. I think that it is a judgement call. Each fir is different. In our area we are vollie based so we don't get to the fire has quickly as a urban crew. All-in-all the most important thing to remember is...SB or vari nozzle, it is still a tool. That tool is only going to work as well has the person using it. Train with both is my advise. Each one has their own particuliar dis/advantages. Use the right tool for the job. Be safe and learn something new today.BTW I do like the SB a little bit more tho. ;)
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Permalink Reply by ken mackey on
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Our department has combo nozzles on all the preconnects. Not for any reason other than thats what they have had for the last 40 or 50 years. There are straight bores on my engine, but the officers are resistant to change, or afraid to be the first to change.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Smooth bore, only way to go. To many mistakes can be made with a fog that a detrimental on the out come of a fire or worse off an occupant.
Solid stream, large droplets of water, more absorbstion of btu with less steam, and no ability push the fire with a fog pattern.
Fog is broken up into really small water droplets due to the way it comes out of the spining teeth and all the other peices and parts that is has to go through, this creates steam and air movement. Both are bad. You may think you have it on a straight stream but as you a bumping around things and down hallways, you could very easily move that into a fog pattern with out realizing it, thus buring your self, crew of occupants, not an issue with a smooth bore. Also was happens if something in side the nozzle breaks, there are many pieces and parts in there that can break affectinig the flow, guess what, not an issue with SB. Also most people run automatic nozzles, they are designed to operate a "good" stream, even when water volume is not adiquate, thus again potentially leading us down a dangerous path because it "looks good" even though there is not much there, again not a problem with the smooth bore, you will know if you do not have the water to make an appropriate fight.
Just my opinion.
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