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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on September 13, 2008 at 9:34pm

From time to time we have members who may not wear all their bunker gear on a call. Although, I can't think of an instance where we had a situation absolutely requiring full PPE where members were not wearing it. Everyone seems to have a clear idea that PPE is meant to protect them from harm.

For someone who wilfully disegarded an order to use all PPE, I would pull the member aside and assign him/her to help with pump ops or water supply... plus a verbal warning. Next time would be written warning and possibly a suspension, depending on attitude. We don't have firm rules in place.

I have dismissed members from a scene for not having their training requirements up to date.

Rank - Asst. Chief

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Permalink Reply by Wolfy Lang on September 14, 2008 at 5:10am

Thank you for your comments Chief :)
I am looking forward to see if others have the same attitude :)

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 14, 2008 at 10:07am

My department has a "no skin showing" rule and mandatory SCBA use for all interior firefighting. The only exception is that we use an atmospheric monitor and if the air is safe, we allow final overhaul and investigations without SCBA and flash hoods once the major hazards have been abated.

Our company officers are responsible for ensuring that these rules are followed. If members are not buttoned up per the rules, the company has a delayed entry. Both the safety rule violation and the delayed attack would result in serious disciplinary action for the firefighter responsible.

We train our recruits in proper turnout gear and SCBA wear. They have to pass speed drills in getting dressed and proper SCBA donning as the first two practical skills we teach them during their first week of orientation. That happens before they go to the state fire academy Firefighter I and Firefighter II programs for seven weeks. They also have to pass a department interior skills test in their 9th week of orientation prior to being assigned to a line company. Proficiency in donning full gear and SCBA to the "no skin showing" standard is part of that test as well.

A firefighter that has a casual attitude about safety likely would not remain with us for very long. Failure to follow safety rules is not tolerated here.

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Permalink Reply by FyreCapt on September 14, 2008 at 10:52am

Their is nothing HEROIC or COOL about being burned, injured or killed simply because you think its not "cool" to wear certain parts of your PPE! It is not only the Company officers responsibility to ensure their crew is wearing their PPE, its everybodies job! When I began my career, it was still ok not to wear your SCBA on certain fires. I look back and think how stupid I was for doing that.
My dept. like many others has placed all members through extensive training on the proper uses for PPE and has shown many actual incidents were Firefighters were hurt, or killed because they didn't have the appropriate PPE on.
It worked!

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Permalink Reply by Erik Sorensen on September 14, 2008 at 11:16am

All departments must have SOP's and SOG's that tell the firefighters exactly what the Department expects - and what will happen if you do not meet those expectations. This means all PPE - including seatbelts. As Chief Officers we must then have the courage to follow through for ALL (that includes us as well - if we enter the hot zone we had better be in our PPE as well). This second part is the hardest part of the whole equation I think. As a chief officer I have made this mistake, but as all mistakes I try not to repeat it.
One of my first fires as a career firefighter was to another frequent call to a location. I being the naieve probie that I was got off the truck with all my PPE. Captain being the leader he was was wearing his duty univorm and the senior firefighter at least had his bunker pants on. When we got to the floor and saw the smoke captain told me to stay at the top of the stairs, not to move and left me to get his gear. Our policies at this department stated that this was not acceptable, but as far as I know there were no reprocussions.
Again Chief Offciers MUST write their policies give a penalty and FOLLOW IT. Reinforce this with their Company Officers, put in your policies that if a firefighter is caught not wearing their PPE the Company Officer will be reprimanded as well. As our good friend Billy Goldfetter says.."We (the Chief Officer) are not here to be the firefighters friends, we are ther to do what we can to get these guys and gals home alive. Safety is NOT negotiable".

Rank - Fire Marshal (Assistant Chief)

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Permalink Reply by turk182 on September 14, 2008 at 12:06pm

I can not stand when fire fighters are on scene of a fire and you see them with their gear hanging open or not wearing hoods or gloves.

When I see it I make them button up especially when they are near the fire.

After having a friend of mine get burned when a gas can exploded and hearing her scream in pain and trying to help her until the ambulance arrived I have little tolerence for people who have the equipment to protect their selves and don't use it.

I worn them and then if they don't listen then I make them stay away from the fire or go home.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 14, 2008 at 12:22pm

Oops, my rank is Battalion Chief and I fill whatever role is needed - Incident Commander, Safety Officer, or Sector/Group/Division officer.

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on September 14, 2008 at 12:24pm

We require full gear even for fire alarms which are alarm malfunctions most of the time. We've had a few "bells and smells" calls that were "smoke showing" when the 1st-due engine arrived. If the engine crew isn't ready to go to work, then the fire gets a bigger head start with all of the operational and safety problems that entails.

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