The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Is anyone else having this problem.
It seems lately that all the newer members we are getting in either do not know the chain of command or just do not care.
When we are at the station or at a call when you tell them to do something they either ignore you or donot do it.
The chief and myself have been discussing this problem for awhile now and I keep telling him if the line officers do not stand together and tell them this is the way it is if you do not like hit turn in your stuff andd hit the door.
Because to me if they are off doing their own thing and not doing what you need done at that time they are not doing you any good any way and they are going to get someone hurt.
I will give you some examples:
The cell phone issue they stand there talking or texting or taking pictures and not pay attention to what they are doing.
We told them to stop taking the phones to calls but they still do it and get away with it.
The second one is at calls you tell them to do something and they tell you it does not need done right now. And they also get other newer members to listen to them instead of some of the officers.
I keep trying to get the chief to have a meeting with all the line officers so we can put a stop to this, but he has yet to call one.
Just wondering if anyone else is having any issues like this?
When we are at the station or at a call when you tell them to do something they either ignore you or donot do it.
The chief and myself have been discussing this problem for awhile now and I keep telling him if the line officers do not stand together and tell them this is the way it is if you do not like hit turn in your stuff andd hit the door.
Because to me if they are off doing their own thing and not doing what you need done at that time they are not doing you any good any way and they are going to get someone hurt.
I will give you some examples:
The cell phone issue they stand there talking or texting or taking pictures and not pay attention to what they are doing.
We told them to stop taking the phones to calls but they still do it and get away with it.
The second one is at calls you tell them to do something and they tell you it does not need done right now. And they also get other newer members to listen to them instead of some of the officers.
I keep trying to get the chief to have a meeting with all the line officers so we can put a stop to this, but he has yet to call one.
Just wondering if anyone else is having any issues like this?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
-
I am assuming that we are talking about a volunteer fire department here. Full time firefighters who don't follow the rules don't last long where I work. It's not a democracy, it's a fire department. If these incidents were to occur at my station, I would have to follow the following progressive discipline steps:
1. Verbal Warning
2. Written Warning
3. Meet with my Battalion Chief and discuss Disciplinary Options
4. Terminate the Employee
If you've had children already, then you will know about this part. Just before everyone leaves the station for that training drill or some other "group participation" activity, you need to call this individual out and have a meeting in the Captain's or Battalion Chief's office. This is a turn thing and they will know that something is up when you have them come in and close the door. You have the verbal discussion, letting the firefighter know what they are doing wrong. You give them the chance to correct the inappropriate behavior pattern. If the problem still does not go away, you need to have a second meeting in the office and issue a written warning. This is also where you ask the person to leave for the day, week or whatever time period but the bottom line is that everyone else hanging around the station see's that you are following through and following department policy.
It doesn't take long for the others to figure out what's going on. Even an old dog will eventually figure out that it's no fun to get smacked on the nose with a rolled up newspaper... You just need to be decisive and consistent when enforcing your rules. Sounds like it's time for you to roll up your newspaper... : ) Mike from Santa Barbara
-
Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
-
In the station, yes... but generally not on the fireground. There are always those that stand around and watch the others check the trucks, wash the hose, set up chairs, etc.
I think there's a couple of things about this - one, they are mostly (but not always) younger folks who perhaps aren't as motivated to work, or are even unfamiliar with the concept. The other thing is that the officers are also working rather than supervising.
On the fireground, well that's a totally different story. Members not wanting to follow orders or otherwise do as directed should be disciplined. I know there are a lot of volunteer FDs - mine included - that do not yet have a progressive discipline procedure. But a stern talking to, followed by written warning, time off, revocation of privileges or gear may be needed to get the attention of some.
At the station we need to pick our battles, but on scene it's pretty clear what needs to happen.
-
Permalink Reply by turk182 on
-
I keep telling the people we are having the trouble with that fire departments are not democracies that there is a chain of command.
We are a volunteer fire company and in my twenty+ years with this department it was never like this until recently I say in the last two years.
I have warned then numerous times about the behavior but can't get the chief and line officers to stand up and put a stop to this behavior. It is be let go by them because they say we can't afford to lose them. but I keep telling them if they aren't doing want you need them to do then what good are they at the scene.
Well it is getting to the point that if they keep it up the will be told to leave the scene because I am afraid they are either going to get some one else or their selves hurt or worse.
I think the whole thing is that they have not grown up yet or are used to getting their way and do not like being told what to do. But I am going to get it straightened up even if I have to whack them with a bundle of news papers instead of one rolled up.
-
Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on
-
All of these are good if you can get the chief to back you . I was with a dept. that the chief had certain ones that could do no wrong . They could talk however they wanted to to the IC and no repercussions . Others that did not have to go to classes and improve their selves . The cell phone is a killer everywhere .
-
-
I think damon is right in a way if the officers don't stand together and the chief does not care that is part of the problem.
Before this all started i'd say 2 years ago we would never have this at a scene we could be arguing before a call and it never carried over to calls now it is getting out of control and has to be stopped and soon.
-
Permalink Reply by Oldman on
-
Not knowing the in's and out's of your department, it appears from your post that you may hold some type of officer's position. If the Chief won't call a meeting, maybe you should. Maybe the Chief is wanting his subordinates to take control and work it out. Maybe your SOGs won't allow you to do that. Maybe it's time for a change in officers. There are a lot of maybes.
In my department, the line officers, the Lieutenants and Captains run the stations. The Staff officers (various Chief,s) handle administrative duties and only get involved at the station level when all else fails. When they do get involved, someone (s) is not going to be happy.
At my station, I am the big dog. The big dog barks and people usually pay attention. When the big dog stops barking, somebody is fixing to loose part of their division C. It happens occasionally and usually with the newer people. Some don't like it and leave, others figure out pretty quickly to keep the big dog happy. Actually, I am fortunate to have a pretty good crew which wants to work together. Everyone tries to handle problems in house. My people know that I never ask them to do something that I won't do. I will get out there and help wash apparatus, sweep bays etc. I do not yell and scream, but I might "raise" my voice to be heard. They know to ask questions after the call on why I did something the way I did, and also know I will have an answer for them. I don't believe I've handed more than a couple of written reprimands in the last 5-6 years. I can usually pull them to the side, have a very discrete discussion, and it ends.
Now at the station when the publics not around, we cut up and rag on each other, but when we are on the job, it's business and they know it.
-
Permalink Reply by kenny goines on
-
Trust me as much as you may want to whacking them over the head is not the answer, you will end up in more trouble than they are!
-
-
I am the assistant chief in my department and the way ours works is the chief is the only one who can call line officer meetings. So if we do not have his backing then they do not get called.
A sometimes you will get the old yeah we will back you but when it is time to face them then you get the I did not say that or just try to do better.
-
-
metphorically speaking of course... : )
met•a•phor |ˈmetəˌfôr; -fər|
noun
a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable: "I had fallen through a trapdoor of depression,” said Mark, who was fond of theatrical metaphors | her poetry depends on suggestion and metaphor.
• a thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, esp. something abstract : the amounts of money being lost by the company were enough to make it a metaphor for an industry that was teetering.
-
Permalink Reply by T.J. on
-
we always do the chain of command and if you are caught not following it there are penalties for sure and they're all listed in or sop's so everyone knows.
-
Permalink Reply by Justin Buck on
-
at our dept. we dont put up with people like that. a 6 months ago a new firefighter took the truck twice to calls with out taken the proper test to drive a truck , ran into the wrong house on a medical call and he wasnt even trained or taken any first responder classes, and then a few days after that he jumped all over our chief cursen and being a dip $hip.
-
Permalink Reply by anne potter on
-
Well sounds like your chief at the next election needs to back down if he can not run his dept right... Kids are messed up enough with grown ups helping them along as far as not being responsible... Sorry this is stressing you soo much,but sounds like election time things need to change
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
