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Younger chiefs/officers
Had something happen in our county that raised a few eyebrows and figured I would throw it out and see what the emotions are. Recently, a company in the area elected a 21-year-old chief. I had heard (nothing factual, just strictly hear-say) that some of the members had issues with this. Many of them, of course, being the older and more experienced members. I am not sure if they are upset about being outranked by a younger, less experienced individual or reasonably feel that he is incapable. Just curious to see what everyones opinion is on the situation.
I am a young officer myself. I was 21 when I was appointed to the fire sergeant position. I am confident in my abilities, both on scene and in station, as are the members under me. Our system is designed so the fire chief is elected in December and takes office in January (one year term). The chief then chooses his officers and presents them for approval of the company at the January meeting. The chief of course has his own opinions and courses that he feels an individual should have before being placed in the position. Of course, no chief would place anyone in an officer position if he/she were not comfortable being represented by this individual or having this individual making decisions be it on the fireground or in the station. I would hope that the general membership electing a chief, no matter how that particular stations system is designed, would abide by the same guidelines. I feel that as long as the individual has the knowledge (station workings, incident stabilization, personnel issues, etc.)and maturity and has demonstrated such, then age should not be an issue.
I am a young officer myself. I was 21 when I was appointed to the fire sergeant position. I am confident in my abilities, both on scene and in station, as are the members under me. Our system is designed so the fire chief is elected in December and takes office in January (one year term). The chief then chooses his officers and presents them for approval of the company at the January meeting. The chief of course has his own opinions and courses that he feels an individual should have before being placed in the position. Of course, no chief would place anyone in an officer position if he/she were not comfortable being represented by this individual or having this individual making decisions be it on the fireground or in the station. I would hope that the general membership electing a chief, no matter how that particular stations system is designed, would abide by the same guidelines. I feel that as long as the individual has the knowledge (station workings, incident stabilization, personnel issues, etc.)and maturity and has demonstrated such, then age should not be an issue.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ERCVFD 842 C. Warren on
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mck306john,
you and Ron both need to grow up and listen to the men like xchief22, I'm a younger firefighter myself, 25, and I know that our age group no matter what certs, or even experience has no use being officers it's just gonna get someone killed, at 19, 21 whatever you may think that you're mature enough to handle it but we're not, I was elected to be a Lt. at 22 and turned it down because I stepped up and said i know I couldn't handle the position. We're professionals and in the public eye everyday, the name-calling and profanity makes ya'll look anything but professional.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Spence:
I guess I came upon it by accident!
One at a time!
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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You're absolutely right that JFK challenged us to put a man on the moon before the 1960's were over and we did it. On the other hand, we killed at least 3 astronauts while doing it, and NASA didn't put a 21-year-0ld in charge of the project.
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Permalink Reply by mike wright on
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Ok first of all before I would really put my input in I want some more information about this person. He is only 21 fine but what is his background and education. Has he been in the jr's for 4 years and taken every class under the sun since he has gotten on? Has he been at the station since he was 5 and knows more about the trucks than most people there? Some people are just cut out to be in the fire service and as a chief. This may be his case but without the whole story I cant put in my vote for him or against him. I made captain of my department at the age of 29 the second youngest guy on the department. This made some of the older guys upset I am sure but with my background and training the chief thought I was the best choice for the job. There are alot of things that need to be looked at before placing critism on a person for their age and or experience.
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Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on
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Chief did we not beat this dog to death in November???
OK so since we have new thoughts on the deal, let me add mine.
1. If a 21 year old is the best possible candidate, somehting has gone dreadfully wrong...period.
Someone needs to hire a consultant to get things back in order in that town.
2. As I and several have said a 21 year old does not have enough experience in life to be put in charge of an organization. Yes there are 21 year old lieutenants on battlefields, but they have senior officers who oversee their movements.
3. I was a young officer @ 26 and to this day feel I had enough fire experience to do the job, but I was still 26 and was barely ready to assume a command role in the fire service.
4. God love this kid for having the balls to step up to the plate, but shame on a dapartment for putting a kid in the position to be responsible for that much at that age.
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Allen,
If the department is so desperate that they have to appoint a 21-year old chief, they're probably not in shape to fund a consultant, even a low-bid consultant. Does anyone think that a low-bid consultant is going to give them anything more than low-bid advice?
And as Mick Mayers says...'Those that can't do, teach, those that can't teach evaluate, and those that can't evaluate consult."
Ben
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Well, I have watched this post for quite a while now... Here is my two cents.
I know my opinion may not be popular, given this website has alot of younger firefighters/juniors... You can take every class known to man from juniors to the age 21, you could live in the fire station your entire young life, you could take in every call whether it is 400 or 4000 per year, thats all good. But come on, at the age of 21 what type of real life experiences do you have to prepare a 21 year old to lead an entire organization? Whether you are paid, call or vollie it needs to be run as a BUSINESS. Taxpayers pay taxes in these hard times and they pay for services expected and rendered from the fire department. Fire Chief's who don't look at running it as a business, (financially) are the one's running with little to no manpower, high turnover, poor recruiting, inadequate tools, equipment and fire apparatus. Chief's need to be looking at this as a business model, knowing exactly what a dollar gets his customers, so when municipalities say cut your budget, Fire Chief's can say OK but this is what you are forcing me to cut. Whether your annual budget is 40K or 4 million, you are actually running a service oriented business with either paid or non-paid employees! Come on, I was 21 once... where can we find a beer/girls... Most of us were lucky to be able to balance a checking account not to mention running a service oriented business, handling town politics, hiring, firing, preparing a budget, handling code enforcement, all the managerial and leadership interpersonal dynamic issues, and all of the liability that comes with being a Fire Chief.
21 in my opinion is OK to be starting your career in the role of a company officer but not as the Fire Chief. If a 21 year old is the best candidate for the Fire Chief's position, than someone dropped the ball years ago at preparing for the future of that specific fire deparment...
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It took me years to master conflict resolution skills.
It took me years to see the department from the big picture angle instead of what was in front of me.
It took me years to process the ever changing information that would become the knowledge base that I would use to formulate pre-plans and incident mitigation.
It took me years to get comfortable with my skin as the department's chief officer.
I must have been a slow learner!
TCSS.
Art
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21 is the perfect age for taking all of the blame when things go South.
All of the self-doubt that is present, due to the lack of experience, will explode into a feeding frenzy on your confidence.
And it will be the ones who thought it was a good idea at the time who will be the FIRST to jump ship.
It's great if you're trying to get into the Guinness Book of Records as youngest chief, but you really should be getting into books by Brannigan, Brunicini and Salka if you have any idea that you may someday want to lead a department.
You're 21 and the chief, but are you a LEADER?
The jury would still be out on that one.
IMHO.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by SHAWN FORINGER on
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MY FEELINGS ON THIS IS .IF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS AT LEAST 5 TO 6 YEARS EXPERIENCE BEFORE EVEN THIKING ABOUT BECOMING A CHIEF. IN MY DEPT.WE HAVE A COUPLE OF YOUNG CHIEFS 23 YRS. OLD. AND THEY SHOULD NOT HOLD THAT POSITION AT ALL .THE ONLY REASON THEY GOT IT WAS BECUASE OF FAMILY MEMBER.
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Permalink Reply by Ray Evans Jr on
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I'd like to add my 2 cents to this conversation, it's something that I've looked for answers and ask questions about for several years. I've been in the fire service since I was 14-15 years old, for me it's a family tradition my Dad, my Grandfather and much of my extended family are or have bean fire fighters. The department I'm in is small and doesn't answer a drastic volume of calls each year but we see our share, we're not the busiest but we're far from the slowest dept in our County wich has in the area of 60 depts. I've spent the last few nights reading most of the comments made since this discussion was started, thou I may have missed a few. The subject greatly interest me because at the age of 19 I was elected as Asst. Chief I served the position for about a year and a half, at that time our Chief decided to leave. More like the membership decided he should go, no one liked the missing money or several other foul things that went on under him. But that in effect put me as Chief which I held for another year and a half I was 21 when I got bumped up. This spring I gave it up and took back Asst. Chief over personal problems with a member of another dept, a move that I greatly regret. I am currently trying to change that and be re-elected as Chief. But that's just a litle insight as to why this interest me as much as it does.
In reading most of the post on here I've seen alot of very good points, I've also seen a good bit of bickering and the old "who's is bigger game". I would like to thank several of the people who have made post trying to teach the younger generation, we need all the help we can get. To those who have left comments that bash the younger generation for trying, it's a shame. We all can use the advice and help from each other, the bickering and fighting will get us no ware. If we all try to work together and get over our petty differences we as a group can better the fire service.
I don't consider myself as haveing seen it all or had every experience, I'm 3rd generation. But in being that I know from stories shared between members of my family, I've seen things that my Dad hasn't seen and he's seen things that I haven't seen. And the same goes with my Grandfather and the rest of my family. The same goes with stories around the Fire house's, we all have our experiances. Some of us get to see one thing and others get to see other things.
I know now and at the time I most likely wasn't the best person for the job, but I was the only person who would do it and was capable of doing the job. But I will also say that I am also lucky in the fact that one of my mutual aid departments is a paid dept, and that many of their members are State of Pa Fire Accadamy Instructors. This has been a blessing for me, I have a wealth of knowledge at my finger tips.
But to the older generation who say's that nothing replaces age and years in service, your right to a point. But this is a job weather paid or volunteer, that is constantly changing. The tactics we learned a few years ago and our understanding of fire fighting has changed, sure some remains for the most part the same but much of it evolves every day. I'll put it this way and it's my firm belief. I consider myself a fairly highly trained fire fighter, I have more training then most in my area and am trying to get as much as I can get into in the future. But I will also say that in no way do I know it all, and I hope I never do. I have a lot to learn in my life, the day I think I know it all I hope some one kicks me in the back side and tells me to get out. Because with that attitude I will get some one hurt. We all have alot to learn weather it's young or old, a probie or a seasoned vetern. As a kid I watched my Dad go in dressed about the same as Bull in Backdraft, heck I still can't get him to wear an air pack and gear at the same time. It's one or the other, never both. He used a pressure demand airpack with steel bottles, I use a CBRN airpack with enough
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I just realized that there's a word limit, it's late so I'll finish my thought tomorrow. But let me know your thoughts until then.
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