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Comment by Dave on December 8, 2010 at 10:14am

Bradley, To answer the point that you did bring up about the saw vs axe. We use saws on flat roofs. The ladder companies and Rescue's are starting to get chain saws, but i am still seeing the axe used as first choice. Funny how people did jump on her for getting winded, no one asked if this was her only opening!

Comment by Bradley Webb on December 8, 2010 at 8:39am

He looked at my profile and saw that I have been in the fire service for two years. He automatically assumes that since I've been on for only two years that I have never fought any fires or anything according to how I look at things. I fight on average about 75 fires a year between two departments which still doesn't mean I have experience or anything else, in fact it doesn't mean anything. Just because you have twenty years on the department doesn't mean you can kick the new guys a**es for getting out of line. You should help them not murder them. The fire service has a bad habit of not listening to the lower-line guys and only relying on the older guys experience. You can learn from everyone. Personally I take each new guy we get and drill him for info. Why? Because he might have picked something up I don't know.

OK I've thought it over some more and the way I look at it is: with this video and there are many others like it, the other firefighters are always the first ones to judge. Civilians or someone else looking at this video may say hey that's a good job but everytime a brother or sister gets on here it's always bad. Why can't we use constructive criticism? As in "Why is she chopping at the roof instead of cutting it with a saw." That would be a more reasonable comment than "OH Lordy Jesus she doesn't have a helmet on." Well duh, think we got that, doesn't mean everyone else has to follow it. Don't fret the simple stuff in the video, if you know better then great you don't have to tell the rest of us. WestPhilly is also right, I have seen many many videos of guys doing vent work without packs, it's not a requirement in some places, I've seen it in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, and several other cities.

Oh and Don *Takes G.I. Joe and runs away* "You can't have it, it's mine, get your own!!"

Comment by WestPhilly on December 7, 2010 at 8:06pm

Mike,

The problem with some of the criticisms is that they're so obvious: "She should have had her helmet on"? Yeah, no kidding. As for the absence of SCBA, actually it is a matter of department policy. I imagine the policy in Boston - like Philadelphia - is that Paks are optional when working on the exterior. Whether that's wise can be debated, but don't point fingers at the girl.

By the way, how did you know Bradley had just started his career? Do you two know each other?

Comment by Don Johnson on December 7, 2010 at 3:40pm

No! You can't have it, I play with it better than you do! LMAO!

Comment by Bradley Webb on December 7, 2010 at 3:13pm

Actually Don said it better than I ever could have. Thanks Don, and give me back my G.I. Joe! Just kidding Don.

Comment by Bradley Webb on December 7, 2010 at 3:10pm

Yea know I typed a good length response to ya Mike but I just don't want to continue with another bunch of comments. I can argue with the best of them. I was on the debate team once and quit because I got tired of it but you know the most hard-headed people work for the fire departments in this country, I just don't even feel like trying. So I will say my last two cents on this and be done with it.

Your right that things should be done with all PPE. I'm not debating you on that I've already said that, but I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't be so judgemental on someone we don't know because they messed up or didn't mess up. I don't know if her chief or Lt. was mad at her for doing this, so I'm going to be neutral on the matter. I'm not going to say she is a terrible FF cause we don't know all the details. I wasn't there. If she didn't have her helmet on then fine. Am I happy about it? Hell no. Am I going to get all bent out of shape for her helmet not being on? No. I don't know why she took it off in the first place. If she was in my department, she would be sat down and asked why. Simple as that if she has an answer and a viable reason then okay, I'm going to make sure she understand the benefit of having a helmet on that situation and if she does then it will be persued no further. If she did it blatantly just because her helmet was bothering then I can think of some good ways to show her the importance of a helmet, and she will never debate it again and she will always keep her helmet on. But I don't know her and she's not on my department so I can't say anything about it. You can't fix another person's department so why even try? You don't see me trying to come to Bridgewater, NJ and tell you what you are doing wrong do you? No because it can't be done. You can learn from these videos but not from telling them they did a horrible job. Truthfully I don't know what she was trying to accomplish with an axe instead of a saw so I can't even say good job or terrible job. All I can say is it looked like she accomplished what she wanted to, so in that sense good job.

And another thing firefighters can take caution all they want and I was not exposing a bad attitude earlier. I was simply stating that sometimes safety practices are not followed sometimes on purpose sometimes not. And yes it puts lives at risk, I've personally pulled out several guys who had the ceiling collapse on them because they waited after the evacuate order. I know. But you can take care of yourself and if your not in a position to tell them what to do you can't. When I was referring to the overhaul it was a specific incident. The guy was from another dept and I was wearing a pack and he wasn't. I was in no position to tell him to go grab a pack it was his fault for entering the structure without one, if his chief is okay with it then it is their problem. It became my problem when he started coughing, so I helped him. I thought it would be wise to carry a pack, since there was still a smoke condition, he didn't, his fault not the departments. Everyone knows the general way to do things but it doesn't alway mean they follow them whether it's on purpose or not. If they chose not to follow then fine they will reep the repurcussions.

And btw the whole thing about a probie. The way I look at it is we are all still probies. Even you super safe FF Lapo. Everyone is still learning on this job even the higher-ups so it makes us all probies. I've done my time as a "true" probie from when I was running with my dad watching him fight fires to when I finished my first full year on the department. Do I still consider myself a probie? Yes because I will never not be a probie, because I still like to learn new stuff.

This is just my two cents take it or leave it. I'm personally not going to say anyone is a horrible FF because they didn't take all safety precautions they could have. I'm not going to say they are great neither, but without proper knowledge of

Comment by Don Johnson on December 7, 2010 at 2:50pm

Oh Lord Almighty! Sounds like a bunch of "He stole my G.I. Joe and I'm pissed games!" Damn guys, grow the F... up! Every Dept is different and yes we all do it different, that's a proven fact, but we all get the job done! Good lord, do we have to put each other down and try to make sure we ourselves are placed on the highest pedestal for all to see? Get a grip! Watch the videos and learn from them. Follow YOUR DEPARTMENTS SOP's and SOG's and go do the job that was placed before you. Don't criticize everyone else to the point that you try and make yourselves the ultimate department and that what everyone else is doing is wrong simply because it's not the way YOUR Department does things. Paid or Vollie, who the hell cares? We ALL have the title of Firefighter, and we ALL do the same job, it's just some get a pay check for it and some don't. Am I the only one that see's this or am I missing several thousand differences in the job discription? Because as far as I can tell we ALL do the exact same job. Grow up!

Comment by Paper-City Jake964 on December 7, 2010 at 1:48pm

Yah you're right "lapo" we should all just bow down to your expert knowledge and skill. We should all just bask in your glory and perfection. MY HERO!!

Comment by Mike "Lapo" Lapotasky on December 7, 2010 at 1:47pm

Look Bradley...if people don't want criticisms they should not post their glory videos. Bottom line is this: You're right about a couple of things here, but where you're wrong is what scares me.

No. Doing things without PPE is not one of those things that is UP to SOGs or personal preference or departmental "that's the way we do things". Are you friggin kidding me with that garbage. Boy am I glad we don't ride together, or I don't live in your first due.

Moreover, when firefighters don't take caution and have the attitude that you espoused by putting themselves at risk and not following generally accepted safety practices it is NOT just THEIR LIVES AT RISK. A FAST, RIT or RIC is standing by ready to go balls to the wall to make a grab on a fellow brother. So, if she got hurt, it becomes her fellow firefighter's problem. You wouldn't know that though considering you just got your career started. By the way, FOR THE RECORD, I NEVER degraded her or the BFD...AND NO there is NO "So be it!" It teaches young inexperienced probies like yourself bad habits! Wait, I know..."You are NOT a probie"! My bad. From the comments you made, it made me think you were.

By the way, what kind of rescue specialist are you?

Comment by Bradley Webb on December 7, 2010 at 12:39pm

Lapo I'm not debating you on any of that. I personally am the only one on my department who wears a pack during overhaul. Do I breathe through it constantly? No. Only when I need it, and when I see another brother in another room coughing his lungs out, what do I do? I go and give him some air because he is having a rough time, not because he's a dumbass or anything, but if I need to take that pack off for anything then I will it's not glued to my back. If it means getting the job done then fine I will lose it for the time being.

What I was trying to say is that EVERY DEPARTMENT DOES IT DIFFERENT. IF THIS VIDEO DOES NOT FOLLOW YOUR PROTOCAL, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEGRADE OR CRITICIZE THEIR WORK BECAUSE IT IS NOT YOURS. YOU DO NOT KNOW THEIR PROTOCAL TO THE HEART LIKE THEY DO, SO BACK OFF. IF THEY ARE OKAY WITH HER DOING AN "UNSAFE" VENTING, THEN SO BE IT. There is no reason to criticize another department in public because they didn't do it by the book or to YOUR SOG'S. If you aren't happy with the way they did things then you can take it to your deparment and show them how you want it done and not like Boston. I don't care then. And if you want to learn from someone elses actions then learn from it. You don't have to critique the video to learn from it. You don't have to do it out loud or everyone to hear. If you want to comment on something like this, it shouldn't be "YOU SHOULD HAVE A HELMET ON!". It should be "in my department we always have a pack on when doing this type of work." Don't direct it at the video or person in the video because 99% of the time they are not listening and don't get mad at others for saying good job or something like that. If it's okay with them then fine let them go with it. At a firescene you are primarily responsible for your OWN safety, those around you come second. If YOU want to climb a stick without a pack then fine it's your life and when you get down I will ask why, and that will be the end of it. Simple as that.
Sometimes theres getting the job done and there's being safe. You can't have one or the other. You have to mix them, that is the only way to do this job. There is no safe way to do anything. Once everyone realizes that then we can more readily accept the concept and work safer and smarter, and more efficient. If I have to go up a stick without a pack to knock some holes in a roof so the fire goes out quicker so I can get my ass back to the firehouse and out of the furnace then I am all fine and dandy with that. This website and these videos are meant to train everyone. If you learn from it then great! I'm proud of you, but if learning from it means that you have to say that she did a shi**y opening up then, I feel sorry for you, because you can't learn except by criticizing others?

Sorry everybody for venting. Dave if you are from Boston then you are the only one who can critiqueing this video and say what she did wrong and what she should have done. And stop with the Boston vs. FDNY. They are both great departments. They both do things differently so get over it, not a big deal, it does not mean that one is better than the other, same with paid vs. vollies. Everyone does things different. Don't get upset when things don't go your way.

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