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Too much manpower?????
So I just got done watching a video that Webchief was talking about titled "too many guys on the roof." If you havnt watched it yet, I hope you do because it lead me to the point where I am now that got me wanting to write this. So here goes,
Being a volunteer, especially one having only two years in the fireservice, I know all about that feeling of wanting that pager to go off the second I get home from work, rollin out of the station, and tryin to be superman at the scene. I think the point that needs to be made here is that, especially us younger guys, can end up doing more damage then good by simply trying to be right at the "frontlines" and taking up space.
I'll give you a few examples here------
Just a few months back, My department was in charge of supervising a motocross event at our local fairgrounds. It turned from a fun night to a "death race" pretty quick. No one actually died, but I think we transported nine people out of that place, one of whom which completly snapped his trachea after landing on his bars and will probably never speak again. Anyway, my point is; everytime someone crashed, all twenty guys went running out to the scene. Twenty guys for one pt., seem like a bit much to anybody. We had two paramedics there and five or six EMT's, myself being one of them. I'm all about trying to teach some of the other guys that dont have med experience something about pt. care but this wasnt really the place to do it. Poeple were running into each other, tripping over each others feet, etc.
One more, to prove that I am just as guilty of this myself; We had a real nasty fatal MVA about three weeks ago. car vs. semi. To say the least, there was not much left of the car, or the vic's in it. We rolled up and everybody got that "superman" mentality that is so easy to get on scenes like that. Thank god, we had our two safety officers and our captains out there watching over us. Even some of the older lieutenants were really just getting in the way. My captain ended up pulling me aside and telling me to go and talk to the truck driver because he wasnt really in the clearest state of mind, for good reasons. I talked to him for a while and they ended up transporting him just to make sure he was ok. Anyway, after I was done calming him down, I just stood back and watched this clusterfu*k unfold before my eyes. There were just way too many people in that wreck all trying to do their best to help when really they were just getting in the way.
So now here we are, The obvious solution is to just say, "well the officers need to delegate members and have some orginization" which is absolutly true. The problem is, when we dont get that many fires and MVA's, you want to try and teach these guys as much as possible and let them get a hand in, after all; that is why they joined. I guess what i'm trying to say is that if you are an officer, my "helmet" LOL is off to you because I'm starting to understand how tough of a role that can be to play, especailly when you have a whole group of guys acting like kindergartener's all trying to raise their hand the highest so they can cut up the car or make the hit on the fire. Please dont take that literally. My department doesnt delegate by hand raising LOL. You know what I mean though
So lets wrap this up. If your a new guy, I know you want to learn as much as you can and be a big part of the rescue, I'm there myself; just sometimes, stay back a bit and learn what you can by watching and let the other new guys get some experience with the nozzle. And officers, dont be afraid to knock us around a bit, thats what you are there for LOL
Stay safe everybody
Being a volunteer, especially one having only two years in the fireservice, I know all about that feeling of wanting that pager to go off the second I get home from work, rollin out of the station, and tryin to be superman at the scene. I think the point that needs to be made here is that, especially us younger guys, can end up doing more damage then good by simply trying to be right at the "frontlines" and taking up space.
I'll give you a few examples here------
Just a few months back, My department was in charge of supervising a motocross event at our local fairgrounds. It turned from a fun night to a "death race" pretty quick. No one actually died, but I think we transported nine people out of that place, one of whom which completly snapped his trachea after landing on his bars and will probably never speak again. Anyway, my point is; everytime someone crashed, all twenty guys went running out to the scene. Twenty guys for one pt., seem like a bit much to anybody. We had two paramedics there and five or six EMT's, myself being one of them. I'm all about trying to teach some of the other guys that dont have med experience something about pt. care but this wasnt really the place to do it. Poeple were running into each other, tripping over each others feet, etc.
One more, to prove that I am just as guilty of this myself; We had a real nasty fatal MVA about three weeks ago. car vs. semi. To say the least, there was not much left of the car, or the vic's in it. We rolled up and everybody got that "superman" mentality that is so easy to get on scenes like that. Thank god, we had our two safety officers and our captains out there watching over us. Even some of the older lieutenants were really just getting in the way. My captain ended up pulling me aside and telling me to go and talk to the truck driver because he wasnt really in the clearest state of mind, for good reasons. I talked to him for a while and they ended up transporting him just to make sure he was ok. Anyway, after I was done calming him down, I just stood back and watched this clusterfu*k unfold before my eyes. There were just way too many people in that wreck all trying to do their best to help when really they were just getting in the way.
So now here we are, The obvious solution is to just say, "well the officers need to delegate members and have some orginization" which is absolutly true. The problem is, when we dont get that many fires and MVA's, you want to try and teach these guys as much as possible and let them get a hand in, after all; that is why they joined. I guess what i'm trying to say is that if you are an officer, my "helmet" LOL is off to you because I'm starting to understand how tough of a role that can be to play, especailly when you have a whole group of guys acting like kindergartener's all trying to raise their hand the highest so they can cut up the car or make the hit on the fire. Please dont take that literally. My department doesnt delegate by hand raising LOL. You know what I mean though
So lets wrap this up. If your a new guy, I know you want to learn as much as you can and be a big part of the rescue, I'm there myself; just sometimes, stay back a bit and learn what you can by watching and let the other new guys get some experience with the nozzle. And officers, dont be afraid to knock us around a bit, thats what you are there for LOL
Stay safe everybody
Add a Comment
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Comment by Avery Dale on October 15, 2008 at 10:10am
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I agree completly. I am in a very small rural volunteer fire & rescue unit. I am only 25 years old and I have held several officer's positions with the possibilty of more promotions in the future. Being my father has been a Paramedic all my life and I was practically raised around the service, there are still times I have to stop myself and take a look around at things both as a firefighter/EMT and an officer. I believe we all get tunnel visioned at times, whether it is a rookie with the rush or a senior heading to "The BAD ONE". As officer's we must be the one's that the younger guys look to, if we are running around like headless chickens, what do you think the other's are going to do. If your a firefighter or a rookie, take the time to access what is going on. Get with your officer's or IC and make a plan.
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Comment by Jenny Holderby on October 11, 2008 at 1:23am
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Dustin, Those videos are great because they DO make you think. You made some very good points. Michael I like the lead, follow or get out of the way. I've used that line myself a couple of times and it is often TOO true. Its just easier when everybody knows who is in charge & what the plan is. One of my MAIN gripes is that when you are given a responsibility you also have to be given the authority to carry out that responsibility. It irks me when I tell someone to do something (or NOT to do something) & they go over my head to the chief. Your officers HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER. That starts WAY before the fire!
Sometimes it does seem like there are too many people around but using the IC system on ALL calls also seems to work well. A lot of people when they are well organized gets the job done & nobody has to work their butts off.
I'm the SO. Besides "watching" everything going on & checking for problems or trying to anticipate problems, the people who aren't certified & our Jrs will check with me because they aren't permitted to be past the first engine. I assign them to air management or rehab most of the time. Or I use them as gophers. Go for tools, go for lights, or I will send them to pick up equipment they are done with or move stuff that was already there that could be hazardous to someone in a hurry with tunnel vision. I will send someone to stay with an engineer in case he needs anything. They know what to expect & where they belong. Again, that starts BEFORE the incident!
The Chief, the IC or SO, whomever is keeping accountability needs to know where everyone is & what they are doing @ ALL times. It sounds difficult but isn't if you use your head & a good system. Somebody needs to be outside the HOT zone in case things go south & you need people to rescue the rescuers. Yeah, I know everybody wants to fight fire or SEE what's going on. But you have to keep everybody organized & working together.
FREE LANCING gets people hurt. You end up working against each other & there is NO accountability.
Operating @ a structure fire with entrapment a few years ago there were firefighters inside looking for victims. The mutual aid company pulled up, they didn't let us know they were on scene to tell them where to put the apparatus & one of their officers, a DC, jumped off, charged a line & handed it to a fire fighter & had him start spraying water in a window with out checking with anyone to see what needed to happen. We had asked for MA because our guys had made several rotations in the S&R and needed rehab.
I grabbed the jerk by the coat sleve & told him to stop. His reply was that he was going to put the fire out. I REALLY wanted to open the line ON him. I don't often scream & I NEVER cuss (almost never) but that didn't apply when I kept trying tell him that he was cooking the rescue crews & pushing smoke & steam back on top of them. He didn't like taking orders from a woman evidentally. He brushed me off & said to get them out of there and out of his way. Someone went to the other side & got my chief who came around & told me they needed me @ the back. They stopped spraying water.
We lost a victim & the jerk's actions, though I am sure had nothing to do with it, could have hampered the rescue. Two victims were brought out with minor injuries. The third was FINALLY found on the 3rd sweep. I usually handle things by talking to the person I've had an issue with and report it to my chief, but that night I filed a formal written report with my chief & and the chief of the MA Dept. We appreciate the help but we also expect everybody to follow the plan & be part of the team. Play in my sandbox, you play by my rules. Now & then you get someone who doesn't want to play follow the leader or Simon says so they get mad & take their toys & go home. Which is not always a bad thing.
We do "post mortems" on our big calls. Or any call where things didn't go quite right. Sometimes you come up with something & try to rectify it by changing protocol or you realize where your brake down was & try to reinforce that. You often find where your strengths are. AND you figure out who's butt needs chewed & who needs to get more training. Sometimes you just need to have a big ole come to justice (the Chief) meeting & iron out the rough spots.
Famous words from my chief - "Great job out there guys but next time. . . "
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Comment by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on October 10, 2008 at 4:05am
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I watched a lot of guys promote way too quick. I for one wanted to spend time in each rank, learning the job to better prepare myself for the job as a Fire Captain. Your company officer needs to simply learn how to delegate and organize. This is done by creating functional groups such as rescue group, ventilation group, interior attack, etc. and make someone in charge of each group. To not capture the talent on scene, make sure that patient care comes second to scene safety means that you are going to experience nothing but cluster clucks and no one will go home high five-ing... To maintain good morale and team orientated actions, you need a leader. Without one, well... you have a leaderless group that is nothing less than dysfunctional... Someone needs to lead, follow or get out of the way... : ) Mike
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