Add a Comment

Comment by chris jarvis on July 21, 2009 at 6:54pm

nice to be here thanks for the invite

Comment by Lee Huff on July 15, 2009 at 11:31pm

First off, thanks for inviting us non-drivers to join. I've been on for about a year and a half, now, and I'm starting to break in one truck at a time. Second, good-looking HME Travis.

Comment by FETC on July 14, 2009 at 5:20pm

I agree with you John,

My pump operators (because I am no longer an engineer) are well trained by the T.O. They are also trained/tested on shift before they take on the role of operator under the shift officer's command.

My training includes about every murphy's law I can think of, so they are well aware of what will work or "fixes" that are required to maintain flow when it is 2am and they are all alone at the panel.

Lever pullers usually get people hurt.

Comment by Travis Bowers on July 14, 2009 at 12:29pm

I agreee with you FETC, we were just having a talk last night at the station about how simple our original 1958 American lafrance is to operate, compared to the 2008 HME, that you see pictured above.

Comment by John on July 14, 2009 at 12:13pm

To go along with what you said about the computerized pump controls, my question is this. What happens when you are inside a burning structure and Murphy comes into play. Electronics do and will break as some point. You are flowing water and the computer shorts out or decides it isn't getting enough electricity and quits. You will either get too much pressure or find you have nothing. In either case, if your 'lever puller' does not recognize that there is a problem and can quickly deal with it, someone will get hurt. It will be you on the inside or the lever puller when you get out.

I used to run an older model engine and we had an electrical fire on the engine. While the cab was burning and all the wiring was melting, we were still able to operate the engine by the old fashioned cable and maintain pressure. The people on the hoses never new we had a problem until they came out.

Pump operators need to be trained in the operation of the engine/truck. This is not just routine things but what to look for and how to correct problems when they occur in order to get you people out of a burning structure safely. We need TRAINED pump operators - not lever pullers or button pushers.

Comment by FETC on July 14, 2009 at 10:11am

Daniel,

Unfortunately Class-1 pumps will have all the bells and whistles. Which can be interpreted as "Set it and forget it" but that programming is for the initial pre-determined (preconnect) hose load. The requirement of understanding the concept for fire flow, friction loss, and discharge pressures for a given hose size and length are still in play. First time you connect a duece and half along side a 1.75" preconnect, the computer is going to flow the PSI preset for (most likely) the 1.75" line and everyone better hope the brothers on the duece/half are ready and holding on to it, otherwise your gonna see some "button pushers" get a load of hurt.

Most likely deserving :) but the department let the guy down not the manufacturer. New apparatus chassis are all computerized and therefore the concept of old school, twist throttle cables for RPM and relief valves can't be incorporated so the technology has forced pump manufacturer's to update their technology to computers as well.

But yes, because some fire chief's and training officers were shown how easy the new pumps are, they have toned down the importance of pump operator training...

That is why we, need to keep forcing the issue on pump operators not button pushers.

Comment by David W. Daniel on July 12, 2009 at 6:42pm

I agree with you.
So since we are talking about people being trained to a level of competency to be an operator, what do you think about the new engine / fire pump controls that are pre-set. It seems like trucks are being made to "set it and forget it" and not considering the points you have stated. Or I am just to old to understand the value of electric / computer driven controls.
Give me a pump chart, grease pencil and a hard wired throttle control any day over the electric stuff.

Comment by FETC on July 12, 2009 at 2:38pm

I can see stortz connections could be a problem with advancement, we have the usual threaded higbee connections. We also purchase alot of 100' sections instead of 50 footers. Less couplings is also lighter, less leaking couplings, especially OK if you have 200' preconnects. We have been using the Chief's Combo Nozzles, 175/75 which offer great flow and only 75 psi at the tip. This combination compared to the discussion of inch and half with a traditional 100 psi combo nozzle is absolutely no comparsion for NF. DP at 134 verse upwards of 200 psi DP for the inch/half with all that FR = getting your ass kicked or asking to reduce the pressure becasue you are unable to hold on. Problem is with crappy nozzle like a 125 combo you are now flowing maybe 100 gpm...

There is no place for lever pullers on a progressive engine company. When I visit a department, I always look at the pump panel to see if it is labeled with the DP's for their lines. Thats says alot about a department's training program.... Monkey can pull lever and wind up the rpm's for that required length. Problem is the guy has no clue what to do if you add on, adapt or reduce a length, and that can be dangerous.

Comment by David W. Daniel on July 12, 2009 at 12:54pm

I have used a 2 inch attack line at a training school and it work quite well. Two draw backs:
If a lever puller is on the panel you are going to get your butt kicked. The bigger hose, more pressure mentality kicks in.
The hose we used had stortz fittings every 50 feet. The hose jacket was smooth like LDH and slid along nicely, but when a coupling fetched up on a door case or another immobile object, it really sucked.

It does flow allot of water and you can further reduce the FL/EP/DP/NF(NR) by using a smooth bore nozzle.

Comment by FETC on July 12, 2009 at 10:24am

Travis

You are on to something, the 2" line is bigger and should be heavier but it is easier to move? If you have a good engine operator, (not a lever puller) the 2" line verse the 1.5" offer greater GPM, but with far less friction loss. So your firefighters are actually humping a bigger hose with far less nozzle force = which is less labor to the end user.

Calculate the FR for 100 feet of 1.5" line verse a 2". If you add up the (WP) working pressures needed to flow the correct (NP) nozzle pressure, the (DP) discharge pressure is much lower on the half inch bigger line. Less pressure equals less (NF) nozzle forces.

-I may not drive and pump 'em anymore but I do train alot of firefighters on 'em!

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 5
• 6
• 7
• 8
• 9
• …
• 11
• Next ›
• Page