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Winter Responses - Maybe you have no choice other than surround and drown?
With winter responses, low staffing levels and budget cuts, should we surround and drown?
We have such a diverse group of folks here on the FFN, I wanted to ask a legitimate Southern California firefighter question...
For those who work places where there is snow and ice, what do you do when:
- Water you use to extinguish the fire turns to ice?
- Roads are too icy for an engine(s) to respond?
- Frozen hoselines?
- Frozen hydrants?
In the event of a fire, is there even a chance for doing any kind of arson investigation without having to wait for the spring thaw? Sure seems like the perfect crime if one wanted to be an arsonist and get away with something, knowing that there was no way for an investigator to see how the fire was started because of again, snow and ice.
So... how do cold weather departments deal with this added bonus? Just askin' from someone who has to drive for hours to even see snow. If maybe one piece of apparatus can arrive on scene, and maybe get water flowing, could it be that it is this kind of scenario (photo above with one firefighter) that most rural departments must use as a cold weather tactic?
CBz
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Ok... So maybe it's the only photo I had showing winter ops firefighting to depict surround and drown. I reserve creative license to do the best I can to teach something worthwhile in a post verses rambling on about something meaningless.
Just from your post, which again I truly appreciate your additional insight that like you say is intuitive, just like doing structure triage during one of the fire storms is no big deal for me. That's what makes you and I, John and others so invaluable here on the FFN. A great example of mutual aid!
So, how often do engine companies train using a chainsaw to draft? Your hard suction only goes so far. How's access handled with everything covered in snow? I'm thinking maybe ice fishing is routine for you, so cutting holes in ice is no big deal. Again, in contrast, it's no big deal to launch a rescue craft into hazardous surf. Yea right, like that's no big deal... (wink)
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Permalink Reply by Mike Gemberling on
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Ice on the fireground can be a drag and mop-up/salvage is much nastier. We have no hydrants in our coverage area. Our tenders carry gas augers and a large otter sled to carry a portable Heil pump down to the ice. Once we have secured the water source, the pump stays there and continues to fill our tenders and tankers as needed. The road usually aren't to much of an issue but our main engine is 4WD. Biggest pain is when your bunkers ice up.
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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I can tell you my #1 POC FD has never trained to cut a hole in the ice with a chain saw. But we do have a double dry hydrant set up that we use year round.
I am too new on my second POC FD to know if that is a standard op or not.
I do know of several FDs that cary ice augers, and I have heard of FDs that use their chainsaws to open the ice.
When we were having troubles with frozen hydrants in my #1POC FD's response area we ran the tanker (tender) with on all structural responses. They have since corrected our freezing hydrant problem so we have stopped doing that. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if we ran into a similar problem again.
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Don, I'm feeling so guilty now not having any of my own snow or any of the hassles... Maybe you should consider, when things get really cold, taking a vacation out to sunny left coast!
You need this Don. Think of your family, think of your department, and most importantly, think about yourself. Yes Don, you and your beautiful bride can be walking on the beach right now at sunset, blowing off frozen hydrants and ice augers!
Networking on the FFN can be a good thing sometimes...
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Mike,
I mentioned to my wife after the snow we had last week about maybe moving south when we retired and she said..."Not a chance Dear, we planned to move father north into the woods and that's what we will do!" Actually I am okay with that. 40 or so acres of woods, nice house with a big fireplace, heated shop, a place for the horses she has wanted all her life, and best of all...no neighbors close by! Sounds like paradise.
I have to admit the beach looks nice. A visit during a vacation would be great. Living year round by the ocean? NO THANK YOU!
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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on
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Mike,
One other thing to consider for these conditions is some personal items that go a long way to help keep you warm. In the winter I usually have a very small duffel bag that I throw on the engine that has an extra pair of socks, extra gloves, a stocking cap, and some granola bars. It doesnt take up any room on the engine, but when your out on a lengthy call they can make a world of difference.
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Henderson on
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I gotta go with you on that one Don. The beach is nice but I would much rather be able to walk out my front door and see wildlife and trees and not neighbors(without binoculars).
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Permalink Reply by big o on
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Did the same here Wade put mine with my gear the day this post started, the only thing i have that you don't is some of those portable hand warmers you can by for like a dollar at Walmart, and a pair of ice grippers for my boots if needed
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An extra shirt or two is good too. Once everything starts slowing down and your body starts cooling of a wet shirt is not fun to have on.
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