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Smooth bore vs. Combination nozzle
So, we have one smooth bore nozzle on each engine as a cross lay, but I've personally never seen it deployed, or deployed it myself as a primary attack line. I've used them in essentials just to get used to the fire stream and handling, etc. Also, obviously the essentials course covers fire behavior, fire streams, and the interactions of all cominations of the above. But, classroom and textbooks only go so far against real world experience. Long story short, I've never crawled into a box on fire and put it out with a solid stream. Are these results typical? It's clear as day after their knockdown. Also, if these results are typical, I would imagine I would want the firefighters to use a smooth bore if I was the victim, with no bunker gear/SCBA. Would this assumption be correct?
Side note: I/my dept. sets attack lines to straight stream prior to entry. The video shows a fog pattern. I would probably only use this with a hydraulic vent, which in my (very limited) experience, works great.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Nice one blair, prepare for the storm, a storm laden with insults probably. If you want to see what I meen, do a search on here for your topic, it's come up quite a few times.
PS. We have a few smooth bores, but we don't see them in use operationally. The Protek works too well.
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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Yeah I didn't even think about searching the topic...I don't post alot of threads. Oh well. I put smooth bore into the search just to see...there is one that ended 10/2009, fairly recent. All the others seemed to be a year or older, so probably alot of newer members who have never put there two cents in. And if there's anyone that has already contributed to another thread and doesn't want to be bothered with this one they can do something fairly easy that I do with alot of threads myself...don't click on it :)
BTW, Tony...no attitude intended towards you there...I know that kind of sounds like that...it's not.
In any event, it's a pretty good video, I just don't know from personal experiences if the results are usually THAT dramatically different...that's what I want to know from those that have used both alot.
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I don't see any bad attitude in your reply mate, just as I didn't mean anything either. Just wanted to warn you about the possible fallout! Not that it seems to be happening yet. Hmm...
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You know, since I didn't get any replies to this, I went ahead and read through some of the older posts, there's some good info on there.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Blair....been there....done that....I was the one who posted in 2009...got some good input...and some sarcastic crap...but that's what I consider it...crap...if someone cannot carry on an intelligent conversation then I really don't take their comments seriously....I had recently taken a pump-ops class and the smooth bore nozzle was almost literally stuffed down our throats...and to be honest with reason....it will penetrate and reach the seat of the fire better....it is easier to handle (less nozzle reaction)...But as you will soon see...opinions vary greatly.....Take care, stay safe and always remember to Keep the Faaith...........Paul
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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I think smooth bore should only be on members POV's fitted with lights (blue only), and only those who wear yellow turn out gear and their trucks sitting in the station are red..... :-) Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Yeah they are easy to use, I've just never used one in a fire. That video is impressive. I'd like to get a chance at our next burn to play with the smooth bore on live fire. All in all, I have found the 1-3/4 combo sufficient for our single family jobs.
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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Lu,
You left out the importance of finding out whether the responder has leather or rubber boots and what color their helmet is.
(Sorry, couldn't resist either...)
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The two main arguments I have heard against a solid stream as opposed to a fog nozzle, even if the fogger is set on straight stream, are:
A fog pattern will cool the fire quicker as it is closer to steam already. And that a fog nozzle will use a lot less water to supress the fire, thus resulting in less water damage to the structure.
And of course the main supporting argument of fog nozzles is the versatility.
In my very first training class(circa 1978), the nozzles we used had two orifices. One was a .75" smooth to deliver a solid stream, and the second was a 1.5" that would accept a bayonette attachment for either a "fog" disperser(more of a sprinkler than a true fog pattern), or a 4' wand used for attack team protection. We were instructed to use the solid stream on class A fires, to break up the fuel and extinguish the flame, and the "sprinkler" appliance on class B fires to cool the fuel load until you could get foam on it. And since we are strolling down memory lane, back then the AFFF was comprised of beef blood and depending on the age of the foam, could REALLY stink up a space!!!
Man, this business has come a LOOONNNNGGGG way since those days!!
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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We just had this debate earlier today at my firehouse. My lieutenant prefers combination nozzles( and why do we call them combination nozzles? what is it combining?) and many of us prefer smoothbores for an interior attack. I believe that both nozzles have their pros and cons and we could argue any one of them all day, but it comes down to one thing. Which ever nozzles you operate with, KNOW THEM! learn their capabilities, applications, and limitations.
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Yeah, I pretty much agree with that after reading all the other threads.
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It has come along way. I was just talking to a vollie from the 70's, 80's era...telling us young bucks about riding the tailboard, taking the SCBA hose and stuffing it in their jackets once out of air to get more time in the fire, OR setting a fog pattern and breathing from the air draft around the nozzle, 3/4 boots....good God...us young guys are spoiled!
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