The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Question for the Chief's ??
We had a 2 car PI accident last week and it was at a very tricky intersection. The intersection is a 4 way stop and is in a bowl style shape with the intersection in the bottom of the bowl. The roads were pure ice too. We had a firefighter of 4 years respond in his POV and came up over the hill, towards the intersection and could not stop. Instead of plowing through everyone he took the ditch and rolled his truck over onto the top of his roof (totalling his truck). Everyone else was able to stop at some point and time but we all know what type of intersection it is.
My question to you is what would you do, if this was one of your firefighters? As in what type of actions if any would you take with this firefighter.
My question to you is what would you do, if this was one of your firefighters? As in what type of actions if any would you take with this firefighter.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by turk182 on
-
You say your sop's state you have to obey all highway laws but even if he was doing the speed limit he still could have been driving too fast for road conditions and if as joe put in his post tire condition could have made this worse.
I usaully do not have a problem with people using POV'S if they use them safely. My concern is they ones who drive fast to call no matter what the weather conditions are or what type of call it is.
We have to start driving smarter so we can reduce the number of accident while responding to calls.
And if he was one of my firefighters and it was his fault I would revoke his light privledges and might even go as far as suspension.
-
Permalink Reply by T.J. on
-
Yes Turk your right on the to fast for road conditions, but really that law is such a "grey area" at least in my book, you could be doing 20 mph and end up into a telophone pole and they'll say to fast for conditions. I strongly agree with you on we all need to slow it down and drive on the defensive side instead of offensive.
-
Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
-
By your own statements, this is at least his third incident involving excessive speed. This time he only wrecked his POV. But what happens the next time. I don't know what your dept. SOP are about POVs. But this young FF needs to calm down before he kills someone. Probably himself.
-
Permalink Reply by united 289..{Dave} on
-
OK T.J. I feel I have enough info to respond to this. As I have said this young man is still a rookie on a V.F.D. . He's excited when making a call. He responded within your SOP's as far as using his Personal Vehicle. That is to respond with his P.V. The question was it done in a safe manner? He may feel that he did. Fact. He has had complaints about his response prior to this incident. Question. Did your command set down and talked to him about this? Discuss what reaction may occur from his action. I am guessing that this not take place. It usually doesn't until something like this happens. Then it is to late, because the reaction has already taken place. So, Now your command shares responsibility.
There is one thing we must all remember. Everyone of us has been there, done this sort of thing when we were rookies.
Now as far as what if any punishment should be handed down. One. He is OK. Two. His pride has been damaged. Three. His truck has been totaled. Four. He used good judgement to serve and protect. As he is trained. How you may ask. He elected to take his vehicle to the ditch. Instead of hurting Innocent people. He laid his life on the line to protect others after a mistake he made by his action.
Your command needs to take some responsibility. I strongly feel he needs to be put on a six months probation. Be forbidden to operate any fire apparatus until he has been put through a drivers training program at the expense of the department.
Dave
-
Permalink Reply by ffbam24 on
-
I'll echo the sentiment: Too fast for the conditions.
I think you were ALL very lucky. I think it was almost pure luck that he ended up in the ditch regardless of how adept a driver he is.
It sounds like he will be a possible liability to your department.
No punishment. But I suggest at the least, his officer talk to him about safe reponse practices. Perhaps a EVAP course.
Glad that everyone turned out okay.
-
Permalink Reply by anne potter on
-
My thing is I think we all have at somepoint went to fast to call... Some of us may not want to admit it.... This guy wrong or right at some point realize what had happen and decided to risk himself of becoming harmed in a accident of is own,than to take out a bunch of people.... It is always easy for people to sit back and take a looky at a bad situation that is what learning is all about... But would we be talking about this if he drove crazy to the scene then came over the hill and stop and did not roll his truck then it would had been a whole different situation..... Action what action.... Be thankful no one got hurt.... A strong tongue lecture and possible more punshiment if happens again... Next time we all go on a call I hope we all remember that we are no good to anyone if we don't make it.but lets not kid ourselves like non of us have not drove alittle to fast to a call and at one point we did not think we were invisable... I just think as we get older we get a heck alot smarter.... That is why as the older group we teach the younger from our past mistakes and hope they learn... May not be able to teach them all.....
-
Permalink Reply by Trainer on
-
Definitely to fast for conditions, was it the first bad roads of the year? Still no excuse for a 4 year veteran. We allow POV at scenes, but discourage it, sometimes it just can’t be helped, and is usually the same people, we have given them radios to call and see if they are needed or listen, you can tell, but this is a subject for another post. Now this could have happened going to the station just as easy. This guy has had issues in the past, that alone would demand a review, maybe a reprimand, and a “this had better not happen again, or else”. We have a personal committee for this and would not bring it up at a regular meeting; he’ll catch enough grief from the members. I would also say this needs to be documented in his file; it may become a liability issue down the road, no pun intended
-
-
Thanks a lot Dave for your info, and you hit the nail on the head in that I don't believe he was ever talked to about his response in the past incidents. If they did talk to him I'm sure it was a simple "watch your speed" type of thing.
-
-
Right on Anne, I know I was in his shoes 10 yrs ago, but add a wife and 2 kids to the picture and it's a whole different picture. Plus responding to MVA and you can tell that it can happen to anyone at anytime.
-
-
Yes this was the first bad roads of the year for use and I like your idea of a personnel committee I'll have to look into that.
-
Permalink Reply by FETC on
-
Bottom line is this, excessive speed caused the accident and not the road conditions. Everyone else made it there without causing an accident let alone rolling over a vehicle. He was traveling faster than the road conditions permit...
I don't agree with you that it can happen to anyone at anytime TJ. That only fits in the case where something falls out of the sky and was unexpected. Like a tree falling onto your car while you were traveling on the roadway. I would imagine the roads were dangerous and slippery from before the tones, the moment you left your house, and all the way to the scene. If the conditions warranted a 5 mph response and most of your personnel went 5, (good for those smart people) but the person trying to go faster is at clearly at fault of his own actions...
This goes back to your other post of the blind hill - highway POV responder accident scene. My stance is pretty well known that the more POV vehicles responding to any fire or accident scene, the more the department takes on for municipal liability. Imagine if this firefighter crashed into the scene, other firefighters or just a single civilian. There is a court case currently in Canada with the same exact scenario and the fire chief and firefighter are held liable.
Did your department cover the damage to his POV? Or did he take in in the wallet and now has increased insurance premiums? In my state, if the driver is young enough, he may lose his license from the state because of his age, new license or the speed factor alone...
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
