I completely agree about stealing a hand line. Each company has their assignment and you should follow that otherwise there is some task that is not being completed. I can understand a back up line going in first if the initial attack line is not in service yet or they are having issues with their hose. But stealing in not right.
Ans everyone does things differently when it comes to when they mask up. To each his own.
Again different strokes for different folks, maybe I used some wrong wording (the stuck on RIT comment) RIT is very important and we take it very seriously but lets be honest everyone wants to be inside fighting fire, so having to be on RIT is not the most desireable assignment sometimes.
Alot of times we do not bring our own hose line, most of the lines come off the first engine. When the first engine gets to the fire the officer anf firefighter pull off the first line, and then the driver pulls off a back up line and RIT line off of that engine. So when we come up to the scene and are ready to work, and our counter parts are not (masking up in the yard) the chief is going to send the crew ready in first. So no matter if they have a line or not another one is already in the yard so we pick it up and go in. SImple as that.
I never said we walked up there with out a task we have tactical templates that we follow at every fire which give us pre determined assignments. But as I said when we arrive at the fire scene for our RIT assignment as the 2nd engine and are masked up ready tow work and the first crew is not the chief is gonna give the job to the guys who are ready, not wait for the other guys to get ready. It is not a matter of stealing anything or being unprofessional it is a matter of just being ready to work.
Now I will say that with Highrise, or even commercial ops we will come off with out masks just for what you said, hell in a high rise fire I am not gonna mask up until the smoke makes me, but the for residential, and multifamily fires Im coming off ready to go.
Im not trying to convice anyone to change the way they do things, the OP asked the question so I answered with what I do. When you and Capcity questioned it I explained further, never have I said it is the 100% way to do it, all I have said is that it works great for me, and I have never experienced any problems with it.
RIT line? Isn't that an oxymoron?
RIT shouldn't be fighting fire - it should be locating, giving supplemental air to, and rescuing the downed/trapped/lost firefighter.
Other companies should be fighting the fire. If RIT has to fight the fire, it will slow them down when time is of the essence.
What's wrong with RIT having their own hose line pulled? Our 5th due engine and 3rd due truck are RIT out here. The engine will pull a line and stage in the front yard with it. Between the engine and truck there's nine guys. Are the 1-2 people pulling a hose line for protection really going to slow the operation down? No they aren't part of the attack group but if they encounter fire on their way to the down fireman then it would be nice to have water wouldn't it?
If RIT has a hoseline, it will slow them down. If RIT doesn't have a hoseline, they can move faster.
What you are talking about is really a backup hoseline, and in many places will be assigned to an additional engine company - not RIT.
I have no problem with a hoseline covering RIT, but most places are lucky to get 4 people assigned to RIT, let alone 8 or 9.
When you're talking about a total of 4 firefighters (typical for many departments) assigned to RIT, diverting 2 to drag a handline means 2 assigned to search with basic tools and 2 for the hoseline. That leaves no one for the additional tools,stokes basket, a RIT SCBA, and all of the other things it takes to rescue a downed firefighter.
5th due engine is halfway through a second alarm for most places, too. 3rd due truck - in some places, they don't get that until a 3rd or 4th alarm - if they can get it at all.
No, I'm not talking about a backup line. We do have the 3rd due engine backing up the 1st and 4th backing up the 2nd. It's a completely different thing.
I know smaller departments don't have the manpower. I get that and that's how they have to operate. However we do. So for you to dismiss the idea as ludicrous is wrong. It's not a bad idea at all if you have the manpower. You say I have to look at the smaller departments but then to be fair you need to start looking at larger departments. I was in no way telling anyone how to do their job. I was just mentioning that we DO bring in a hose line with RIT and it works great.
RIT bringing in their own line doesn't sound like a bad idea (assuming the necessary manpower). With 9 guys that's a pretty self-contained crew so bringing in their own defensive line actually makes some kind of sense (again, assuming the manpower.)
I don't think anyone, based on capcityff's comment is now going to think that they too have to bring in a line with RIT. It's just how those DC FEMS operate.
So how exactly does that work: Search in with the line behind; search behind the line, wet or dry line?
Nowhere did I say that RIT bringing a line is "ludicrous". That is a straw man logical fallacy on your part.
You just can't resist the urge to put words in my mouth, can you?
As seems to be your M.O., you are arguing against something I did not say, but claiming that I did.
Feel free to start responding to the actual comments in my posts instead of stuff you just make up out of thin air.
Ben if you read my post again I defended why it makes sense and that just because you don't think they should have a line doesn't make you right. Not sure what the confusion is here. I did not put words in your mouth. You think there shouldn't be a line in place.
Jack... 5th due engine brings a charged hose line to the front yard and stages. They might also be assisting truck guys on cutting bars, throwing ladders, etc to make the scene safer if something does go wrong. This may also assist in speeding up a rescue if one were to happen. Some companies do things a bit differently. Some don't always like to pull that line to the front unless ordered because of the fact that it may be easier to get in through the rear depending on the situation.
Yes, capcity, you did put words in my mouth - these words... "So for you to dismiss the idea as ludicrous is wrong."
I did not dismiss your statement as ludicrous and I did not use the word "ludicrous" anywhere in any of my posts on the topic.
That fits the classic definition of a straw man: "Stating something more extreme than what was actually said to make it easier to rebut."
Once again, feel free to respond to what I actually say instead of making up something more extreme and then trying to make it appear as if I had said it.
What I did was to point out that for the vast majority of FFN members, we dont have the manpower to assign a hoseline to RIT, and that even if this is done, having the line slows the RIT response unless the hose team operates seperately from RIT...in other words, the "backup" line job.
If you divert RIT resources to fight a fire, then it's just another suppression line and not really operating as part of the RIT, even if that is what some departments call it.
RIT is designed to locate, give supplemental air to, and rescue injured, lost, or trapped firefighters.
In other words, you don't have to be part of RIT to fight the fire. You generally do have to be part of RIT to have the tools and equipment necessary to rescue another firefighter in all but the most simple distressed firefighter situations.
I realize that there are exceptions, but given the studies that prove that RIT isn't really rapid and that it is questionable if it actually is "intervention" (at least commercial structures), anything that slows RIT is going to be questioned.
Okay I'm done talking about that with you. I used a word that was the same as you saying it was bad. It's the same meaning. No need to nitpick and complain about it for multiple posts. Get over it. It's done with.
First, how many guys do you need carrying your RIT supplies? If there's 9 people then you're going to have extra hands. The hose line is just another resource to have. Second, does it really take you that much more time to advance a hose line with the other guys? It shouldn't at all if you are efficient in your skills. Unless the other RIT guys are somehow able to stand straight up and sprint through the building without any problem, the engine guys can move just as fast. Third, how do you keep getting a back up line out of this? You're putting words into my mouth now if you think I said they are looking for the fire to extinguish it. It's there as another tool. Their job is still the same as the others in RIT.
It's obviously worked well for us in DC without any problems or delays so if you don't know how we operate and have never done it yourself can you really say that it doesn't work?
When we run a RIT team it consist of 5 guys and one pumper. We use everything off our truck with our pump operator. When we go in we take a line in with us. We go in with it dry our line man is on a separate channel on his radio and our pump operator has a second radio set to the same channel so if we need water we can get it. Right or wrong this is what we practice and works for us.