What kind of POV lights does everyone have and would anyone prefer some good lights or light setups to me.

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ONE Member of this little club answered the man's question, while a whole sh** load of you jumped on the new guy and kicked him in the proverbial balls.

Brotherhood. It's not supposed to mean acting like an angry 13 year-old beating up his 9 year-old brother.

Not only did you b**ch slap him for asking a question, you proceeded to grind-in insults.

If this Brotherhood, it's not much better than a gang rape.

You old timers can pretty pretty full of yourselves and now you're going to ambush every new member who asks a question you've read a few times before. To paraphrase something one of you said to Travis, you don't have to respond, just ignore that which you don't like.

Travis..if you have permission to run code, as I do (in my state if you have a Red Light Permit you are legally an Emergency Vehicle and all the laws pertaining to Emergency Vehicles, including "Due Regard" apply, then check out www.ledoutfitters.com or www.strobesnmore.com for good deals on light sets and sirens. don't "whacker out" your privately owned vehicle, a single mini light bar and a siren (as required or permitted in your state) is plenty.

Welcome to The Nation, there's a lot of A-Holes around here, but if you pay attention to the threads dealing with firefighting tactics, techniques and methods, you'll learn a few things from some of these A-Holes.

Greenman
One member may have answered the question, but the issue is there are plenty of similar discussions already. Many people will come on and start such a new discussion without any regard for looking to the past. Even after I replied and provided the OP with numerous other POV light threads and asked if we really needed another, he didn't grasp the point.

The point is that one could easily go back and read such threads because the same stuff has been discussed before. There are over 60 pages of threads about lights on POVs, I'm pretty sure one can find what they are looking for in one of those. It is also a courtesy to review such threads before asking people who have responded already to keep answering.
Maybe you should have been paying attention to your teacher. Oh, I am not a dude, that would be Lieutenant to you. Your issues will come across better if your writting is intelligent and correct. Just trying to help.
I think my efforts with Travis will work about as well as the man with the bucket in your picture.
LOL! too funny! That is as funny as the whole topic is seriously sickening!
I was scolding the bullies. I doubt it mattered to them at all.

Frankly, I don't care if there's a thousand threads asking the same question, this new member asked his question now. The answer today may or may not be different than it was in 2008. I don't care if I've answered the same question asked by a hundred different newbies, there's always time to answer one more. The important thing is he is on here and he asked a question. This time it was similar to "hundreds" of other questions, but next time may have a more important question to ask, and may not feel like getting ganged-up on by the people who happened to discovered the site before he did. So his next question will go un-asked.

Not everyone inherently knows the courtesies of online forums; is ganging up on and belittling the newbie the best way to teach those courtesies? Do we want the new members to stick around and learn from the old-timers, mature as Firefighters and as FFN members and eventually give back to the next generation of FFN members, or do we want to drive them off after their first question.

How am I acting now? I am being an advocate for the new members. I am the only member who decided enough with the bullying of the new guy.

If you're tired of the same old posts, then start new ones yourself. If you have seen this topic "hundreds" of times, then simply skip it, and don't read it. There is no mandate that you read every single thread.

Greenman
By the way, for those in rural and semi-rural volunteer and combination departments, the questions is quite a valid one.

Full-time, paid, Firefighters have the luxury of riding an apparatus to every call, and leaving your POV (privately owned vehicle) parked at the station for 24 hours at a time. Within your normal response area you will travel how far from the station to the call in your apparatus? Average..2-10 miles, sometimes more. You may travel further if your second-due. all in a nice BIG RED TRUCK.

For the rural volunteer Firefighter, which is what over 70% of all firefighters, we don't always have that luxury. We respond from wherever we are when the tones drop. It could be at home, work, Wal-mart, the next county over; basically anywhere. How far do we have to travel to respond...if we're lucky it's close by, but if you live in a rural; county you may have to drive 25 miles to get to the call, or to the fire station as the case may be. Red lights don't just get you to the scene quickly for those whose SOPs call for them to respond directly to the scene, but quickly to the station to staff an engine so it can leave the station (as some departments require).

Sure, the fire will still be there whenever you arrive, but will the victims? For you firefighters in large cities, most of the people you serve are strangers to you. You do your best to serve while on-duty, but you don't know them when you're off duty. For the Firefighters in rural counties, there may be only one school, or at least one elementary and one combined middle/high school, and the people you serve aren't strangers they are your family, your friends, your neighbors, your teachers, members of your church, and more.

For the rural Firefighter lights on Privately Owned Vehicles aren't something we put on there to look cool (with a few exceptions...aka "whackers,") they are another tool to get us safely from wherever we are to the fire station or the scene in the quickest, safest manner possible. They tell everyone on the road that we are responding to a call, and they know that if isn't their kin who are hurt or have their house burning down this time, it could be next time.

Whenever the discussion of warning lights on POVs comes up, the City Cousin - Country Cousin aspect becomes quite apparent, as the FFN Members who list large city Fire Departments as their Department immediately dismiss the idea of having lights on your personal vehicle, and think that anyone with lights in the POV is a "whacker" and doesn't take firefighting seriously "the only important thing to them are about lights and what are the prettiest ones to get." Just because it's not a question you have to deal with in your situation doesn't mean it's frivolous for everyone.

I have lights on my POV. I have the most inexpensive mini light bar and LED strobes I can find, a basic no-frills siren with a 100-watt siren speaker. I respond straight to the scene and to the Station, depending on the call, the situation and the need for additional equipment. Would I rather be able to be at the station every third day and get paid to wait for calls and ride the BRT to every call, and leave my privately owned vehicle parked? Absolutely. do I have that luxury? No, I do not.

I don't like running code in either the apparatus, or in my own vehicle. Getting to the scene is one of the most dangerous phases of any response, but it is a necessary evil. Warning those around you that you are not "on your way to church on Sunday" lets people know to let you pass. I've said it "hundreds" of times, you don't need to drive fast to get to the scene if most other drivers pull over to let you pass. Knowing how to drive to the scene, or the fire station, is just as important as knowing how to throw ground ladders, do VES, perform ventilation, or how to make a direct, indirect or combination attack on the seat of the fire.

Our first priority in the Fire Service is to protect life. The fire will still be there whenever we arrive, but what kind of Firefighters are we if we let viable victims die because we sit for 5 minutes at a red light in 5 O'Clock traffic while they died still in the house. Warning lights in my state require others drivers to not only pull over and let me pass, allow me to proceed through a stop light on red when it is safe to do so (with due regard), but also require other drivers to move-over one lane and/or slow down when I am on the side of the road with my lights activated and they approach (the Move-Over Law).

I wish ever Firefighter could be a paid, career, Firefighter who gets to wait at the station for the next call, but until that happens, Warning Lights on Privately Owned Vehicles are a necessity in many rural and semi-rural counties all across the United States.

If this comes across as a rant, I'm sorry! I'm just trying to explain that there's more to POV lights than simply wanting to "be cool." Warning lights serve a purpose whether on an apparatus or on a Firefighters personal vehicle.
Greenman
If you're tired of the same old posts, then start new ones yourself. If you have seen this topic "hundreds" of times, then simply skip it, and don't read it. There is no mandate that you read every single thread.


That is fine and all, however, the issue is when such threads keep popping up, be it this topic, colors, or word games, it is so easy to say to simply skip it. However, such threads do also bury some of the more pertinent threads. There is a reason that a word game has been ongoing for a couple years now and is still at the top of the forums, meanwhile a thread on getting through roll up doors or scene size ups get buried. Even after some revisits to such threads, they still get buried by threads like this.

Sorry, I do not draw the same conclusion as you about the answers being different etc. Point being is there is a way too look up such info before starting a new discussion. Even after I took the time to point out severl similar posts and how to do a search the OP still came on here to be spoonfed the info. I'm about helping to a point, but personal initiative also should come into consideration.




Whenever the discussion of warning lights on POVs comes up, the City Cousin - Country Cousin aspect becomes quite apparent, as the FFN Members who list large city Fire Departments as their Department immediately dismiss the idea of having lights on your personal vehicle, and think that anyone with lights in the POV is a "whacker" and doesn't take firefighting seriously "the only important thing to them are about lights and what are the prettiest ones to get." Just because it's not a question you have to deal with in your situation doesn't mean it's frivolous for everyone.


You're generalizing here. Just because one has lights on a POV doesn't mean those in larger cities are dismissing such folks as "frivolous" or don't take FF "seriously", not at all. There is no doubt that such a tool is a necessity in some places, but doesn't mean they are all over either. The issue with such threads is they have been discussed numerous times and where you do see more issues is someone like the OP here who is still pretty new to the fire service or even jr's asking such a question.

The NIOSH reports are out there and many LODD in POVs have been those FF's in their early 20's. I would think that gives anyone the right to speak up on such a topic, especially when you see such threads typically initiated by new, young firefighters.

And besides, if running lights, perhaps the first place to initiate such a discussion should be within one's own dept, should it not?


Knowing how to drive to the scene, or the fire station, is just as important as knowing how to throw ground ladders, do VES, perform ventilation, or how to make a direct, indirect or combination attack on the seat of the fire.


Yes, I would agree, and this comes with operating with Due Regard. However, we can go back to the age group where such threads originate from, you are talking younger folks who don't have a lot of driving time under their belt already. Many have just passed the minimum age to start driving and some are basically going from that age to becoming a member of a FD and thus can run lights.

The accident rates among young drivers is higher than those who have been driving for many more years. Auto accidents is the leading cause of death in teenagers and those in the early to mid 20's and this is just a general statistic. Now, couple that stat with a new, young driver, and new to a dept and is now running lights and sirens in their POV. The added addrenaline and the sound of the siren etc can cause the driver to go faster and take more chances etc. Why? Simply they don't have the maturity as a seasoned driver.

It seems as though you are wanting to turn this into some type of career vs volly type of thread and are unnecessarily defending an issue that doesn't exist. People have their opinions, but the majority of folks do understand the need for lights on POVs for many folks. The issue isn't about believing such folks are just frivolous or not serious about FF, but moreso about the issue itself and who is bringing up such a topic. The issue has been discussed before ad nauseum, one can and should do a search first.

Does there need to be such a "gang up" as you mentioned? No. But when asking for opinion from the masses, then be wary of what you may receive.
LOL ....sorry I giggled a lil reading this :)
Yes, true. But in some places it illegal to run emergency lights on a POV. Like here in Alabama. They dont mind you driving over the speed limit to the station of call but if you are running lights, they will pull you over.
Maybe you should start listening to the 36 year veteran Lieutenant who is trying to make you look better on this thread instead of acting like a little child and responding like one. Grow up.
Yea but I got some wicked off road lights on my Jeep. Properly covered of course because they ain't legal on road LOL. Seriously though lights are nice if you are a vollie working a wreck and you go POV and have to park in the road. Keeps you from getting hit and sometimes we use our POV's to help do things like set up LZ's and such. Lights are nice then but not mandatory just something to get if you have the money. Me I have no lights and unless I win the lottery I can find much better things to spend my money on. And KY state law says you have lights you better have a siren and mobile radio installed. And our dept. goes further and says you have to have permission from the Executive committee after they inspect your setup before you can use them to respond with them. There are 2 people who have jumped thru all the hoops to be able to use them. And after watching them I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

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