Positive Pressure Ventilation Good or Bad

Hello all,

 

My department just got a PPV fan.  I am responsible to do research.  We are not going to put it in service until I have done research.  I am wanting to get info as to the good and bads for PPV.  All info would be helpful.  I also am needing to know where if any that I can download some FREE videos on PPV. 

 

Thank you!!

 

Russ

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on February 11, 2010 at 8:11pm
I've reposted the video below, it should work now... CBz
Permalink Reply by blair4630 on February 12, 2010 at 5:47am
Get out....Capt....is that for real???
Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on February 12, 2010 at 8:26am
Just like every other tool there is a time and place for ppv. youtube has a few videos on ppv done the rite and wrong way.
Permalink Reply by Patrick Dau on February 12, 2010 at 9:26am
we work EVERY fire with PPV, but when you want to use it, you have to know the basic!

because it can be dangerous, look here!

Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on February 12, 2010 at 11:55am
That was the first time I saw a video that documented not just the flashover but the three air horn blasts to identify a mayday situation. Excellent training video.

CBz
Permalink Reply by Liz williams on February 12, 2010 at 12:04pm
that is a great video, thanks for posting it
Permalink Reply by David C. Tague on February 12, 2010 at 12:14pm
Just look at how the smoke conditions change in that video.
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on February 13, 2010 at 9:41am
Here's an example of an electric PPV fan. The big advantage over gasoline-powered PPV fans is that no carbon monoxide is blown into the structure by the electric version.

Permalink Reply by FETC on February 13, 2010 at 10:28am
Question,

Just curious why did you buy a PPV fan without researching it first?

My department has gas PPV, we have electric PPV's, we have old school smoke ejectors, and we still cut holes in the roof for some applications... Good luck on doing some research and then putting it in service.

As John put, it is just a tool in the toolbox, it sometimes has it's right place/right time and in other incidents... it is not indicated. But actual knowledge in building construction, fire behavior and live fire experience using a PPV for PPA is what is needed.

Worst thing to do is buy the new fan and think it is going to solve all your department's problem with ventilation or lack of manpower for example. I have seen this get a few burned and make a few faster parking lots...
Permalink Reply by Steven C. Hamilton on February 15, 2010 at 9:08am
After reading everyones posts I have a few questions to ask.

How do you plan on using the fan? Are you looking into using the fan for positive pressure attack (PPA) or are you using it for smoke removal?

A high pressure fan used for smoke removal is not a difficult concept. The fire is out and you are in the overhaul stage. However, PPA is a tactic that has come under great scrutiny as of late and requires a great deal of coordination on the fire ground.

The scrutiny comes from what PPA does to the thermal layering. Studies have shown that during the 90 to 120 seconds that it takes to pressurize the building prior to establishing the exterior vent the thermal layering is disrupted and brings a great deal of heat to the floor level. This nearly dooms any viable victims. Additionally, PPA can be manpower intensive. You need personnel to place the fan, breach the exterior vent, an attack crew, and personnel to monitor conditions. It is almost impossible to tell what your fan is doing to the building if you are on your knees masking up at the front door. You need to be able to monitor smoke color and condition from the highest point such as the roof line and gable vents. You also need personnel to monitor the vent exit for fire and auto venting. You need to have a very good idea of the fire's location. It would be very bad to have a first floor fire in a two story house and use PPA if your vent exit is higher than the fire. You will BBQ everything in the path of the fire and the vent exit.

PPA takes a great deal of practice and knowledge to deploy. I would utilize the fan for smoke removal and practice its use in your local burn building until everyone is familiar with its operation and effects on a fire and the building.
Permalink Reply by Brian Mackie on February 15, 2010 at 9:57am
Seriously one of the most scariest videos I have seen. Very good video, not so much for correct / incorrect ppv, but this really drives home the point about not having exterior operations going on while there are crews inside. (never do interior operations and exterior operations at the same time.. its either deffensive with everyone out.. or offensive with crews inside trying to get to the seat of the fire.. but never both!) The exterior crews simply were driving the fire back into the room where the crews had just entered. Add the ppv and pooof.. unreal and really difficult to watch. I always heard and believed that surviving a flashover was highly unlikely... I hope those guys were not seriously injured. soooo lucky!
I have to ask.. am i missing something here? Have I been trained (level 2) wrong? Has something came along in the last five years that I have missed out on with regards to new technology and tactics?
Stay safe brothers and sisters.. please WATCH that video again.. and DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!
Oh I almost forgot to mention. a great book to check out is called "Fire Officer's Handbook or Tactics" by John Norman. Super good reading.
Permalink Reply by Patrick Dau on February 16, 2010 at 4:04pm
that is the german way to use it. someone to know more, i will translate it.

ask me, no prob

stay safe

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