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PD on scene fully involved......NOT
While reading phillyfirenews.com I noticed several write ups were police went on scene reporting fully involved houses and it was usually room and contents. I've only seen a couple "fully" houses.
2 parts, Do the police really understand how to give a fire report and should there be some cross training to help them understand that alot of smoke doesn't always mean alot of fire?
What do you consider "fully involved"? I went on scene and gave a fully involved because fire was coming out of every window.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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I'm with you there John, Give your report (what ever it is) and get out of our way and make sure we have access to do our job.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Mark,
The comment wasn't directed at you but at people that seem to be bashing the cops. I generally address the person to whom I'm directly addressing a specific comment.
As someone pointed out they may not be familiar with the terminology so what to them may "appear" to be fully involved may just be a working fire to us.
There are always a lot of stories about how this or that cop did this or that 'stupid' thing. I'd love to hear stories from cops about the stupid things they've seen firefighters/fire departments do. I'd be willing to bet more than one cop has responded to a fire call and watched an engine drive right past.
We don't have a limited access highway to respond to but, when a cop (or cops) roll up, their first concerns are to protect the scene, warn oncoming traffic and (attempt) to mitigate the incident. This being said, there's no logical reason why your PD/Sheriffs Dept. would refuse to locate to an appropriate place; sounds like someone doesn't take someone else seriously.
I can't speak unequivocally but from what I've seen our PD seems to not be a problem. One could suppose that it might be the newest cops who, while still learning their cop job fail to think far enough ahead when pulling up.
As for the god-like comment, I threw that in because there appears (at least to me) to be many vollies who seem to think that they are or have been, divinely appointed. Maybe when their halo slips over their eyes and all they can is the golden glow, they lose sight of everything else.
What has peaked my curiosity though is, are these "issues" common everywhere; urban cites, suburbs, rural and is it across the board, paid and volunteer or mostly one or the other. Just something to make y'all go, hmmmmmmmmm.
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Reynolds on
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Fully Involved = Everything Burning but the Driveway
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Permalink Reply by Q2Brunner on
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Like most of the other posts for this question I consider fully involved to be either fire coming out of every window and door or something very close to it (80% involvement).
However, I disagree on the training aspect. I think each department should set-up an awareness class with their police departments. Think about it, we set-up awareness classes with railway providers, transport gurus for radioactive materials, the power company, the gas company, and air medical helicopters. We do all this so that they learn our operations (to a basic level) and we learn theirs and everyone remains safe and happy. However, everyone seems to get all upset on both sides when we suggest training with PD.
How many times have we heard of LEOs (Nice term by the way, thanks for whoever posted it) fighting with us because of traffic control? Or how about a stand-back policy, why and where are we going to be and when do you call us in? More and more departments are providing SWAT medic services to their brothers and sisters in blue, isn't that cross training? We give a Fire Ops 101 class to our elected officials and community members but we can't invite the LEO into our station for a cup of coffee?
I'm not advocating that we have to go show them how to perform hose evolutions but maybe a simple class with the street beaters of "don't park your car here and this is why". At the same time they could tell us how to be a good observer for details regarding suspect vehicles (for cases of arson), unsafe scenes, maybe even a quick defensive tactic to restrain the combative patient. In the end the better the relationship you have with them the more they will understand what they need to do to support you and vice versa. This also includes calling in for the "cover now!!!" scenario when you want them to flow out of the wood-work.
Hope I didn't hurt any feelings here, just wanted to suggest a re-think anyone who may be reading.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew on
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No, police don't truly understand fire behavior, unless they've been properly trained. That's why I am an advocate for fire training in the police department since they're first responders here, technically.
My Lt. told me a story when I was going through Probationary Training at the firehouse. He said one day there was a basement fire, subsequently trapping children in the basement. He said that the police, as they were first on scene, as always, started knocking out basement windows with their batons.
By the time the FD got there the children were fried in the basement.
My first fire was fully involved - I could see it from about a quarter to a half a mile away, as it was creating a potent glow in the night sky. It was a two story house that was abandoned, and had been for awhile. By the time we got there all it was was a fireball. I remember feeling the heat radiating from the house as I stood on the front lawn.
What they should say, if it's a fully involved room, is "We have a working fire. 1 room - fully involved. 3-4 corner of the house." Ect.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Dawson on
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How many times have we heard of LEOs (Nice term by the way, thanks for whoever posted it) fighting with us because of traffic control?
A little off-topic, but on our MVA or fire scenes, my department has control of the roads until LEOs arrive. We have trained with our State and county officers on proper roadway control. Many times we have control until the scene is cleared.
As to reports from LEOs about fires and MVAs, our dispatchers have the training and experience to relay info from the field pertinent to the incident. In my short time with the department, we have not been disappointed so far. Having dispatch handled by one centre in my county has its advantages.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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We've done some ad hoc awareness training for our LEOs.
We are trying to condition them to just tell us what's visible - either "nothing showing", "smoke showing" or "smoke and flames showing".
Our dispatchers also ask their dispatchers what's showing in those terms, as they're the same terms the dispatchers ask anyone who calls to report a fire.
It's not a frequent problem for us - our response times are usually equal or better to the LEOs, and since we operate the 911 PSAP, we get the priority on alerting for fires, although the law enforcement alert is done quickly as a second priority.
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