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Opinions needed about professionalism
Hey everyone, I am in need of some opinions about rules regarding professionalism. My department is volunteer. We train weekly and due to the appearances of some, have had to enforce a dress code. The basics are try to have on clean jeans or shorts (appropriate length) and no tank tops for the ladies. Sadly, the last part we had to add was a no visible cleavage rule because it was becoming a major problem. We are having issues with people and their attire when not at the station or on emergency scenes. What would your department consider representation? Recently our department was covering fire and EMS for a state fair. The chief said prior to attending that if you were going to be there, you had to wear a department issued T shift, generic ff or EMT shirt. One of our members showed up wearing a tight tank top, too tight jeans, and her radio on her side. She did not come out to work though. She came over to our first aid station and sat down and said "I know I'm breaking the dress code, but I don't care." Each of our members working had their radios on their side and were dressed accordingly. If you were to walk by and see a group of people with radios on their side, would you assume those with the radios were representing the fire department?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Andrew on
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Dress codes should be strictly enforced, in my mind.
We have had some women come into our department. At times they would wear tight and/or revealing clothing. One day one of the girls filed a complaint against an EMS Captain for sexual harassment for touching her inappropriately on an EMS run. Of course, no one else was around to see this. The guy wasn't the most respected man in the house, but still, the girl wore VERY revealing clothing on purpose. She lasted a few months in the fire house, and didn't even show up after the whole incident.
The fire house should be a professional, yet FUN, place. There's a place for fun, but it should be kept relatively professional. Everyone should wear adequate clothing - SHIRTS, pants/shorts, sneakers/shoes, etc.
One thing that I personally don't like is that my department mandates that everyone must wear pants on EMS calls, even if you're not teching. I think it should be discretionary. Think about it: You're at the firehouse on a 95 degree day, sun shining and humid. Who would wear pants? You get a call for chest pains. As a driver, especially for a call in which there will probably be no bodily fluids to come in contact with, should I have to wear pants? We don't need to wear long sleeves, so I think it's kind of silly. But hey, it's the rules, and I abide by them while they're set in place.
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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I can't see where you think that you won't have bodily fluids on any medic call.
Medics will take blood from a patient to have ready for the hospital before their arrivial. Plus adding a IV. At anytime a chest pain could become a cardiac arrest in seconds with out warning.
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Chest pain doesn't mean they'll definitely go into cardiac arrest.
Plus, I am a driver. I wouldn't be in the back helping prepare an IV, I'd be in the front driving the ambulance to the hospital.
Of course I'd wear gloves, whether bodily fluids were present or not, too. The only real contact I come in with patients is assisting in getting them onto a stretcher and off of the ambulance. I'm not an EMT at all, so I don't give oxygen or anything unless directed by an EMT or an officer.
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I have had members of my fire dept ambulance respond for chest pains and had a patient drop on them without warning and all they had was chest pains.
We also had a member of my fire company drop dead in the firehouse after he had just excercised. The guy was a athlete and young and he sat down on the back of the medic unit and dropped on the floor.
His name is on the National Fallen Firefighters Wall in Emmitsburg, MD
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Permalink Reply by Katina L Phalen on
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Once again just like someone has already said before watch what nest your stirring up! Have yourself ever wore anything that doesn't go by the rules? I have my radio on me 24/7 and I dress how ever I want when I'm not at work. Unless your going to pay me all the time you have no control over what I do on MY TIME! When I'm at work I'm in uniform, when I'm there on training nights I'm in my shorts and dept t-shirt. If I get called in the middle of the night for a fire I'm most likely in my shorts and a t-shirt, rather it's the departments or another one. Once again how long has she been on the department? What does she do there? How many actual working structure fires has she been on? Those questions you have not answered!
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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The point here was this member showed up at a booth the FD was running at an event. She was wearing revealing clothing and said she didn't care it was a violation of policy. THAT IS THE ISSUE. Not that she wasn't aware of the policy, but that she was purposely flaunting her breaking the rules.
So you carry your radio 24/7? Really? Into a bar or club?
I leave mine behind if I am somewhere, or doing something, that responding simply isn't practical or appropriate.
As far as how a volunteer dresses, I couldn't care less, UNLESS they are representing the FD or EMS Squad. AND like it or not when you are wearing the radio the peception is you ARE on duty and representing the organization. If you want to dress outside of department policy then leave the radio home. Why is that so hard to understand? No one person is so valuable that if they miss a call the organization will crumble.
Your questions about how long she has been on the department, what she does, and how many incidents she has responded to, are all irrelevant to the topic. The topic is wearing appropriate clothing when representing the FD. To me your questions are smoke and mirrors to divert from the fact that she is willfully violating the rules and the department officers don't have the stones to correct the situation. Inconsistency costs departments volunteers all the time and selective enforcement of the rules is the worst kind of inconsistency.
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Although I am sorry for your loss, and the loss of the patient, it has nothing to do with me as a driver. Maybe it was a bad example to use. I've gotten blood on me ONCE, and it was on my exposed ARM. I've never gotten anything on my legs, not once.
If it was an MVA or something where there would be obvious trauma and/or bodily fluids gushing, then I'd wear my gear, hands down. But but for an elderly fall, a lift assist, or something with no open wound, I don't see the point.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Im overweight, and Im an officer, Captain. Was I always overweight? No. Why am I overweight now? There are many factors, do I aprove of it? No, absolutely not. Its affecting my ability to do things with my 4 year old daughter, and its affecting my ability to fight fires. Im a volunteer, but I still hold myself to the utmost professional manner. I wear my uniform or dress shirt to parades and fairs and county wide drills, when I attend county team drills I dress ready to work yet look professional. My weight is always on the back of my mind but as a 36 year old father and husband, who works in an office setting from 5am to around 6pm, I have very little time for weight training or physical fitness, I still get in what i can when I can, like walks or ride a bike. It is a big problem with volunteers, correct, because of the professional attitude or lack thereof. Most are just members so they can wear the shirt and brag, otherwise known as "Social" members, and they dont care about their weight. I do care, and it bothers me, but I am working on it. Not all of us can work out every day and be the adonis that you might be brother, but maybe you can offer your support for those of us that do see it as an issue and want to loose the weight instead of talking about us in a negative way?? I know I would appreciate all help I can get in terms of learning about new workout routines that I can fit into my day and would openly welcome any advice or pep talks I can get.
Just my opinion about the weight issue.
With the woman in question? She has a severe lack of respect for leadership and the laws, and she openly flaunts this. I say she needs a public show of discipline. She needs to be brought down in front of the department at a meeting and than made to apologize to the officers and members in person (without taking her clothes off) and than she needs to go through the probationary period again and show she does care about the rules and her officers. Thats the only way to deal with that type of personality. Anything else is a waste of time, they just simply keep on going.
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I witnessed something similar in my past department. They were asked by the people that ran the county fair if we would run the EMS for the week, being that the local paid service was charging about 1/3 of all profits for the fair...not very good.
Anyway, we set it up with other squads, for EMT's only to do voluntary 8 hour shifts from 6am when they were setting up rides and such until 11pm when the fair shut down. One of the perks for this scheduling of time was for every so many hours you put on the schedule you got so much in free food from the FD food booth, AND, a certain amount of free daily passes for you and like 3 members of your family for one day of the fair. Well, it got to the point that people would show up, sign in on the roster, grab a fanny pack (first aid kit) and two way radio and than leave the booth, allowing us to believe they are walking around and making a presence when in reality they were enjoying the fair alone so they can accumulate hours to get their family in for free. While they were doing this they would change clothes in the rest rooms and be in un-appropriate clothing to be representing an EMS agency. This being a COUNTY fair there were thousands of people from all over the county and state including VIP's like the govenor and senators. Must have been nice for a senator to see someone in an explicit T-shirt with a beer carrying a radio and first aid kit over their shoulders...(morons)
So we had to crack down and have routine check ins for the walkers (we called the patrolling EMT's walkers, they walked around the grounds and would call in any EMS emergency to get the 6-wheel gator to respond with other EMS and a stretcher) to come in to the first-aid booth every 30 minutes and check in with the hosting squads commanding officer. This made sure they were doing their job and dressed appropriately and acting accordingly. We also had other squads officers walking the crowds and looking for the EMS shirts and making sure they were acting professional and not playing the games or riding on the rides. It sucks when a bunch of grown adults need to be supervised and you cant rely on old fashioned trust, and common sense, and respect anymore........
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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That's the great thing about having a hobby ("firefighting"), you don't have to let it interfere with your other activities (like family, job, happy fun time, etc).
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Actually no, I have not worn something that breaks our dress code because I believe in setting a good example. If I'm out getting groceries and I've got on a tank top, you can bet that I've got a t shirt in my car to change into. I'm not saying I show up on every call with my clothes in like new condition and every hair in place. But I make sure I look as professional as I can. I don't carry my radio or pager 24/7 but there are times when I have it on me even if I can't respond to calls because my fiance is on the dept. and I listen to make sure things are ok. But I keep it in my purse on low just so I can keep up to date on things. This individual has been on the dept. around 2 years. When she shows up for weekly training she usually gossips and plays with her cell phone. She's been in 1 structure fire. And she had the nerve to tell our chief she wasn't participating in hose maze training one night because she needed to evaluate everyone and see what level they are on.
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