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Opinions needed about professionalism
Hey everyone, I am in need of some opinions about rules regarding professionalism. My department is volunteer. We train weekly and due to the appearances of some, have had to enforce a dress code. The basics are try to have on clean jeans or shorts (appropriate length) and no tank tops for the ladies. Sadly, the last part we had to add was a no visible cleavage rule because it was becoming a major problem. We are having issues with people and their attire when not at the station or on emergency scenes. What would your department consider representation? Recently our department was covering fire and EMS for a state fair. The chief said prior to attending that if you were going to be there, you had to wear a department issued T shift, generic ff or EMT shirt. One of our members showed up wearing a tight tank top, too tight jeans, and her radio on her side. She did not come out to work though. She came over to our first aid station and sat down and said "I know I'm breaking the dress code, but I don't care." Each of our members working had their radios on their side and were dressed accordingly. If you were to walk by and see a group of people with radios on their side, would you assume those with the radios were representing the fire department?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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I think this issue strikes to the heart of a fundamental difference between paid and volunteer. A paid FF on duty is bound by regulations to a specific dress code while volunteers pretty much show up in whatever they choose. The typical rationale being that they are 'just volunteers.'
The battle cry, "I'm a volunteer" is carte blanche for many to do, say and wear what they please without regard to public impressions. Maybe in some locales showing up looking like you just cleaned out the hog trough is acceptable and nobody gives a damn but there will be those taxpayers that find such a cavalier attitude off putting, to say the least. And for any VFD that tends to work with a neighboring paid department, the paid guys are going to have a pretty low opinion of vollies that look like an unruly, college spring break mob.
But mostly, it's about professionalism. If you consider yourselves 'on duty' 24/7 then you should be prepared to be on duty, which means not just being dressed appropriately to don TOG but presenting a unified and professional image to the public. Monster boobs and bellies, unrestrained and threatening to burst through halter tops and wife beaters says many things about that person, but it doesn't say professional. And for those that say that there is no difference between paid and volunteer, take a look at the appearance of a paid department and then see if you can still make that comment with a straight face.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Gregory on
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I think we agree in more ways then not but there seem to be a few differences.
Paid firefighters respond to calls from the station where they are already required to be in compliance with the dress code. They do this usually for 24 hours at a time then have 2 days to go back to life where they can dress as they want and do as they want.
Volunteers respond from their everyday life. You might be grocery shopping, at the pool with the wife and kids, attending a family barbecue or sleeping peacefully in the nude at 3 in the morning.
As much as I'd like to say "I'm on duty 24/7" it's just not the case. There are times that I am not available for a call. If I'm at the pool with the kids I'm in shorts, probably flip flops and I probably wore a hawaiian shirt there. If there is any chance I'll be available for a call (Like my wife or another responsible adult that I know and trust with my kids is there)then my bunker gear is in the car. I also keep a pair of steel toed boots and a pair of long pants in the vehicle and if there's any reason I wouldn't feel comfortable representing the department in the shirt I'm wearing (Like a hawaiian shirt on a medical call) I'll have an extra, usually a department shirt in the trunk.
I do have a life outside the department and I will NOT stop having that. I will however guarantee that when I show up on scene I will be appropriate dressed and ready for action and when I am representing the department through dress or actions I will be 100% professional.
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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Okay, I am a member of 2 POC FDs as well as being a career firefighter in another FD.
One of the BIGGEST problems in the volunteer/POC fire service today is the feeling that you don't have to follow the rules, or you can pick and choose the one's you will follow, and then throwing out the "I am just a volunteer" as an excuse. Any organization you belong to has rules, whether it is the softball league, hunting club, car club, dart league, or any other voluntary membership organization.
Orgnizations do not need bodies that show up and do as they please. They need members that will follow the rules and be team players. We need to be cohesive units in the fire service and I stay away from people that display the "I am special and the rules don't apply to me" attitude. They are disruptive and damaging to the organization.
As far as having a life, of course you can have a life, bringing that up is ludicrous. Sometimes you have to look at the situation and see if responding makes sense. Like if you have been drinking you wouldn't respond. If you are dressed either grunge, or provocatively, wouldn't the easy solution be to have a department T-shirt in the turn out gear locker and simply slip it over your other clothes? That way if you took off your turn out coat you would be dressed in appropriate FD attire.
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The comment about having a life outside the department was in direct response to the last paragraph of Jack's post which to me seemed to indicate that as volunteers we should be dressed and ready to show up on scene in what we're wearing 24/7 and never be dressed in anything that is not appropriate for being on the scene. That to me is what comes across as ludicrous.
My department uses POV response due to the size of the district, but the concept is the same. If I'm available to respond but not wearing clothing appropriate, I keep something I can throw on in the car so that appearance is not an issue.
To me comparing how a volunteer firefighter dresses when they are not at the station OR in any other way representing the department by participating in a department event or wearing the department logo to how a paid firefigther dresses when they are on duty is ludicrous.
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Did you read my response? I said keep a T-shirt in the gear locker, or in your gear bag, so that you can slip it over you clothing so you are dressed appropriately. Otherwise don't take off your turnout coat.
There is a difference if you are signed up for scheduled hours on the POC or Volly FD or EMS squad. If you are signed up for duty hours then I believe you should be in appropriate attire.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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This has been an ongoing issue for a couple of years now. This individual has given our department a very bad name because of her actions and the way she dresses. There aren't many women on my department but in the almost five years I've been there, I have worked very hard to prove that I am professional. I have earned the respect of many chief officers in the county as well as those working in law enforcement and EMS. We just recently had to modify the dress code to specifically include a "no cleavage" rule because the shirts she would wear were so low cut it left nothing to the imagination. She cries that everyone is picking on her and she gets defended my so many other members. When we have our weekly training/meetings I always arrive in a T shirt and either jeans or appropriate length of shorts. She has been known to show up in a tank top and mini skirt and assign herself to the medical truck. I just don't know how to fix this issue when she is always being defended by others. I'm tired of being labeled as a (insert your own nasty word) by those who haven't gotten the chance to know who I really am. It's even so bad our local newspaper has had comments about her in the comment section following an article about a structure fire we have had. What do I do?
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Eric,
My comment, If you consider yourselves 'on duty' 24/7 then you should be prepared to be on duty, goes to comments I've read here a hundred times. There are a number of vollies who take pride in the fact that they are on duty 24/7 and that's fine. MY point was, and Don mentioned it, is to keep at least a tee shirt along with the TOG.
Secondly, the over arching theme, and to which I was addressing, was the concern of the OP of a female who shows up inappropriately dressed and with an attitude of F**k all.
All too often there are those vollies who see this as little more than a hobby (and I never indicated you were one) and resent being told how to dress, much less anything else. But there is also a constant whining of how vollies are looked down on by paid ff's, I simply pointed out that part of that may be their lack of pride in what they do. There are innumerable posts and comments about people not wanting to train, not showing up for calls, picking and choosing what they will and won't do on the fire ground, combine that with a complete indifference to their appearance and they wonder why so many paid guys look down their nose.
I didn't proscribe a dress code for anyone, only that if a person is going to be available and responding to calls they should be prepared for it, which should include not ONLY their TOG but appropriate clothing to wear first, such as at least a department tee. Which is exactly what you said YOU do. So clearly, if you can, why can't others?
I do disagree with your last statement, if a person is going to participate in a fire department function then they SHOULD be meeting the same standards as any on duty firefighter, namely, they should look professional. Again, you seem to realize that by carrying appropriate clothing yet you appear offended by my pointing out that others should be doing the same thing.
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Jack,
Perhaps I misunderstood the end of your original comment. The way I read it was that you were essentially saying "As a volunteer you're on duty 24/7 so always be dressed to go" Which I now see was not what you meant.
I believe my last statement may not have come across as I intended it to. I firmly believe that if you are any way participating in a department activity OR wearing a department logo then you need to put forth a professional image.
I'm not offended at all, I just misunderstood a portion of your statement.
Thanks
Eric
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Get a copy of the comments in the newspaper article. Present it to the chief. Explain your concern about the professional image of the department.
It's one thing when you say "It's wrong" It's another thing to prove that it's looking bad on the department.
Sadly if the command staff won't remedy it there may not be much you can do.
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Permalink Reply by Katina L Phalen on
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I agree with Eric, but remember they might like looking at her as eye candy so you might be beating a dead horse. Don't let what she does reflect how you act and dress. I myself love to wear long dresses when i'm not at work, but there is a t-shirt (and a pair of socks, cuz blisters SUCK) hanging in my locker to put on if I need to roll. I have been doing this for 13 years and found very few women that I have gotten along with, cuz most of them are there for one reason (let your imagination run with that one). Don't keep harping on the subject cuz then you look like the as my daughter puts it the "B" word. Keep your head up build your rep and screw her. You need to make a journal for everytime she dress not to policy at the station and on scene. Just remember what she does on her own time is her time as long as she is not wearing a dept logo there is really nothing you can do. Wearing her radio doesn't count as a logo! You still haven't said what her job is and what her job performance is at the station or on a fire scene?
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If she isn't "On Duty" why is she wearing the radio? To me here is where the she is not on duty defense falls apart. I have radios from 2 different POC FDs and if I don't want to be considered "On Duty", or ready to respond, they stay at home or in my truck. The only other reason for her to be wearing the radio is to draw attention to herself as in "Look at me, I am a firefighter."
Again, if the guys are letting this slide because they want to look at her as eye candy they are every bit as pathetic as she is in her need to do that.
I want to be able to count on my fellow firefighters, not have "eye candy" walking around flaunting her ability to disregard the rules that everyone else has to abide by.
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Permalink Reply by Chief Dino on
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If there are policies in place and she continues to choose to flaunt them, perhaps she needs to be asked to leave. As Jack mentioned her attitude needs work. This seems to me a discipline issue and one that her Capt. or Chief needs to address.
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