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No loops in crosslays
Can anyone tell me if this rule is from NFPA or OSHA?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on
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What are you calling a loop?
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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No idea what you're talking about but either way NFPA doesn't tell you what to do. You don't have to follow anything they say.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.
By "loop" are you talking about some extra hose left outside of the rest of the load as a pulling point? If so, there are no rules against this. Matter of fact we put such loops in all the attack lines. Cross and speed lays (200' of 1 3/4) have a loop put in on the 5th tier while loading. This way the line can be easily pulled from either side and the hose deploys quickly because most of the line comes out at once, reducing to eliminating any "spaghetti" by the pump.
The rear bed (2 200' crosslays of 1 3/4) is set up similar as the cross lays, with a loop. The static bed has several loops on it so a FF can easily grap enough line by judging distance. The only line we don't have looped is a 200' 2 1/2 that is our blitz line....and that is a minuteman load.
On my first dept, the crosslays were setup to have two loops on each side to basically use like a backpack to deploy the line.
So yeah, who ever is saying having loops is not allowed probably has no clue. As for lines coming off an engine, this has happened from time to time, but typically loops have nothing to do with them coming off.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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No Loops on hose lines.....Who ever said that is blowin smoke up your arse.
NFPA makes suggestions. Not laws or rules!
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Courtney,
Preconnected crosslays have been known to fall off a fire engine in the past, yes it has killed civilians and also created some serious injuries. You can goggle it to see some news reports. In an effort to reduce the hazard from happening again, NFPA recommends that all hose is secured. Secured means under a cover, or the nozzle is secured in a holder, etc.
When you look at how this type of accident occurs, often times it comes down to simply sloppy hose loads. I have seen some really lazy firefighters attempt to keep the nozzle or loops hanging really low off the side of what has now become really high or tall engines. Back in the day, fire engines were never this high and were ergonomically easier for hose deployment. Now when you try to make the hose hang lower for easier deployment, it can become the source for which road bumps, side to side shifting during sharp turns, causing a 150' or 200' line to deploy and start dragging behind the truck.... striking cars and pedestrians.
You can have loops, as long as the line is secure. Now I am not saying you need to use a bungee cord, but if you need the nozzle hanging off the side of the truck, the nozzle should be held in place with a nozzle cup for security purposes. The weight of the nozzle is what starts hose to inadvertantly deploy while driving over the road.
If you note, newly designed trucks have canvas or diamond plate covers over the preconnected crosslays. That is to meet the NFPA guidelines for keeping hose secure.
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Permalink Reply by Courtney Marx on
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The extra hose extended out on the crosslay for you to deploy the hose quickly.
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I agree on the smoke.
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Thank you all for the replies. All of the neighboring departments are changing their crosslays so there are no loops. Some departments have even gone so far as to design a new load to meet this so called rule. I believe the person spreading the no loop rule information may be salesperson. Again, thank you for your reply.
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Hell!, if a salesman is selling that load of bunk and departments in your area are buying it.
I will come down & sell them the Brooklyn bridge along with some nice swamp land to
put it over.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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There is no NFPA standard that states that you cannot have loops in any hose load.
The NFPA standard just states that the hose must be restrained so that it cannot accidentally deploy while the apparatus is in motion.
How you pack and restrain your hose is a combination of apparatus design and local practice.
My department recently changed our preconnects from triple-layer loads to modified Minuteman loads with 100 feet of Minuteman preconnected to 100 feet of flat load. The flat load has four loops (two on each side of the crosslay bed) to help deploy that part of the load. The entire load fits easily under our hose retention systems and we have never had an accidental deployment of that load with the apparatus in motion.
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Permalink Reply by Kody Brodwater on
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how does someone die from that ? i doubt that. but do you mean loop as in for the modified minute man. that is what my company has and it is awesome and quick to deploy
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Permalink Reply by Eric Yunginger on
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Hose (and nozzle) accidentally deploys from the engine, nobody on board notices, all of a sudden you're dragging a heavy nozzle at the end of a long rope. Very easy to see how it could cause an injury. Say it falls off the engine going around a corner, into the path of a motorcycle. Spend a few minutes thinking about it, it's not hard to come up with scenarios.
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