Do you feel the NFPA and the NFPA Standards, are a Friend or a Foe, to the Volunteer Fire Departments.

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How many firefighters have been killed by flash fires at MVAs? I've never heard of a single case.
How many firefighters are killed when working MVAs and being struck by another vehicle. Several per year, unfortunately.

As for the FF 1 standard, it's based on meeting skills competencies, period.
How an individual class is set up has nothing to do with it.
My state has FF 1 classes that take months of one or two evenings per week.
Hundreds of volunteers complete that class.
If I'm not mistaken the teams directly involved with the extrication are not mandated to wear the vests until the extrication is complete. Once complete, the vests must be worn.
What I am saying is the standard was written to allow NON integrated Pass devices to meet the standard....by who? The CEo of the company that makes NON-integrated Pass devices. It is not IF..That is the case. Surely, you cannot be so naive to believe that NFPA standards are based solely on what is"best for Firefighters". Why do they let manufacturers on NFPA standards commitees?
This is a discussion. If you wanted people to agree with your point of view, there is no point for a discussion. I do not have to worry about being civil because i don't care about this. You asked for opinions and i gave you mine. Because I don' t agree with you doesn't affect either of our lives. To think it would be anything less than civil is absurd. Now having said this, I disagree with you. I am speaking from personal knowledge of a specific incident. I do not believe NFPA standards are unbiased or above question. I believe that they are subject to the same lobbying, influence, and corruption that all of our government and society are subject too. There is alot of money at stake and anytime money is involved, there is question. I am sorry you disagree, but, that is what the discussion is for.
I thought that they don't even make non-integrated PASS devices anymore.
I also thought that, if you had an older SCBA with non-integrated PASS; if either the SCBA OR the PASS went bad, you had to replace with new CBRN approved SCBA.
I was of the understanding that non-integrated PASS devices were not available anymore.
I am referring to the Sur-Pass, Sur-Pass II and Dragonflies.
Anyone?
TCSS.
Art
Ummm guys, the High Visibility Safety Vest is not an NFPA Standard. It is a FEDERAL LAW
Rule 23 C.F.R. Part 634. We can't put that one on NFPA. NFPA Standards are more or less "optional" and we should try to comply to the best of our ability. The Federal Code of Regulations ISN'T an option, we have to comply even if we are volunteer, we provide a service to the community. Incident Command is NOT an NFPA standard, it too is Federal. Fight it all ya want, call it stupid practice or fuss about it but it is a done deal and I don't see it changing. As far as the vests go with flamability, the code was re written to state that they don't have to be worn during fire suppression duties AND if you read the law and what type of vest is required, it has to be "break away" to enable the fire fighter to remove it quickly if he gets in trouble and it is compromised or caught.
We all stand corrected. Good catch, Jenny!
That would be my point, Art. They are still available because they still meet the standard. Which was written by a CEO of a PASS company that was not integrated. I am not making this up nor is this top secret. THAT IS WHAT NFPA IS....
Secondary equpment suppliers can sell you used and refurbished equipment from older packs. All packs are available. Search online for used equipment will quickly help you locate suppliers.
well here I reply again more humble and a little wiser, thank god, and I must say the high visable vest are a winner, still a little pain in the a** to wear but they are worth it. I've seen first hand how well they work just the other day as I came on a mva that another department was working, just as I passed their FP setting up flares to close the left lane, had moved over to the right lane when I saw their blue lights in a distance, A car passed me doing about 90 who then proceeded to skid and wreck the landscapeing on the right shoulder. I stopped as their members were pretty busy with the first one, and the road was now not passable. When one of their officers came over( I think an assist. cheif),I heard the driver say one of the firefighters stepped out and he didn't see him. I have to amit I was wrong, and say the guys not wearing vests were really hard to see, their turnout gear blended into the surrounding. Note there was a lite snow falling but most people were not useing there headlights and the stripeing on the gear wasn't really that bright. Again I stasnd corrected, and I know I'll take the extra second to put mine on..
mixed...I think NFPA brings a lot of good things but sometimes to get the job done we have to shelf NFPA and do what we have to.
Most people who whine, complainm, gripe and bitxh about NFPA standards have no idea what 99% of the standards are about!

Ask Alan Baird if he wishes he didin't use the line of "they can't hold us to a professional standard, we are just volunteers".

If he did, Brad Golden of the Lairdsville NY FD would still be with us today.

Ask the Baltimore FD idf they wished they had followed NFPA 1903.. Rachael Wilson would still be among us.

Imagine if there were no standards at all...

We would be driving and riding in unsafe rigs.
We would probably still be wearing raincoats as PPE.
SCBA? A filter mask, if one was lucky.

Fires? There would be plenty, but along with that would be loss of jobs, homes, and the number of deaths of both FFs and civilians would be horrfying.

Just my 7.5 cents worth.. Deputy Chiefs have to pay a little more...

PS: for those who bitch about the costs.. nothing stops a few FDs getting together to purchase the standards and sharing them

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