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Kitchen Table Tactics 1-07-10
Withwhat you can see, discuss your tactics and what you are thinking as you pull up on this job.
Where is your primary life safety?
Where and what size is your first line?
What about your second line?
Options for venting?
Search and rescue?
What about exposures?
Do you have a plan B is Plan A doesn't work and what is it?
Discuss this with your crews and share your thoughts. It is really good to hear other's ideas and thoughts on these fires. Stay safe and be careful.
Where is your primary life safety?
Where and what size is your first line?
What about your second line?
Options for venting?
Search and rescue?
What about exposures?
Do you have a plan B is Plan A doesn't work and what is it?
Discuss this with your crews and share your thoughts. It is really good to hear other's ideas and thoughts on these fires. Stay safe and be careful.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael C. Harrison on
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Where is your primary life safety? I'm not sure what you are asking, but if it is "where is my primary life safety concern" ...I would say 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd floor
Where and what size is your first line?1 1/2 inch in the front door and then hang a left
What about your second line?2nd floor
Options for venting?take the windows that aren't already out
Search and rescue?fire floor and floor above simultaneously then the top floor
What about exposures?have a company/companies check them
Do you have a plan B is Plan A doesn't work and what is it?send another company to extinguish the fire if the first one failed to get the job done
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Permalink Reply by Rick Westerman on
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O/A give the on scene report, Engine 1 on scene of a large two and a half story residence with a working fire on the first floor. E1 is laying a supply line from the west, taking an 1 3/4 for search and rescue and fire attack, we'll be operating in the offensive strategy, and we'll be A street command. Our alarm room will repeat this report back to us, after which, command gives a supplimental report to include... A street command to alarm.. E1 will will be north accountability, IRIC will not be in place due to the rescue profile, dispatch PD for traffic control, investigator,proper utilities, give me the balance of a first alarm.
Now we have set the stage, time to go to work.
first order of business, life safety, this does not look like structure from the ext. only room and contents. confine the fire to the area,room, or building of origin. and think remove the victims from the fire area or remove the fire from the victims. If victims are located,can they be removed from back entrance and exit points while a fire knock down takes place simultaneously. Or are they not capable of assisted removal. Lots of different situations to react to, get the job done. But the first and second floors are of immediate concern.
First line, looks like the front door is a good option here, but a quick 360 may reveal that the back door attack would push the fire out the front, may also be a good option as well... fight from the unburned portion of the structure. And search those areas at the same time .During the 360, check the exposure risk profile and a mental contingency to mitigate if problems arise.
Second line, second crew, goes to the second floor to conduct a search, and check for fire extension in the wall and floor space directly above the fire. If an all clear is obtained and no fire extension is found second line can now back up the first line on the first floor and assist with fire control efforts.
Ventilation options here would be PPV from the back of the residence to the remaining fire area. This truck company will be responsible for securing the utilities, both gas and electric if the house is so equipped. Once PPV is set and utilities secured, get the hooks and pikes working to expose the floor joists and walls in the fire area.
When these efforts are successful, you can bring in a third engine Co. to begin the secondary search process, using a thermal image camera to check for hot spots along the way. Truck Co. can also begin the salvage and overhaul process.
Perfect world scenario, standard conditions fought with standard actions produce standard outcomes.
If plan A does not produce for us what we had intended, the fire is out performing fire control efforts. Plan B could consist of larger diameter hose streams, more manpower, all the way to including a defensive operation.
Thanks for the opportunity to share,
Fraternally,
Rick Westerman
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Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on
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I think your idea of a 2.5" line is admirable for the volume of fire that is showing. However, there is almost no way humanly to maneuver it in a house. The amount of manpower to be able to wrestle it is all consuming of valuable resources. You can accomplish the same fire flow with two 1 3/4" lines and 4 guys. You would need at least 6 to manage the 2.5" line. 4 to be on it in the house and probably two more just to shag hose from the outside and around corners.
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Permalink Reply by Capt./Chaplain Mike Petrosky on
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Where is your primary life safety? Primary life safety concern-fire floor, others are secondary.
Where and what size is your first line? 2.5" blitz attack line through the front door after a quick hit from the front of structure.
What about your second line? 1.5" house line after initial body of fire is knocked down.
Options for venting? At this point, horizontal venting, leave room in front for the aerial to work.
Search and rescue? Yes. This appears to be more than a residential bldg. possible high life loss hazard. Search ALL floors.
What about exposures? During intial 360 walk around you should have a good idea of what you have. Looks like B side at this point would be your first exposure worry.
Do you have a plan B is Plan A doesn't work and what is it? If fire is not knocked down and brought under control within a reasonable amount of time or things go south as conditions worsen, go defensive and use master streams and larger handlines for defensive operations.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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I have to totally disagree with the statement that there is almost no way to humanly move a 2.5" inside a house. Infact, it IS done often, and as an SOG in many departments for large volumes of fire. It makes NO sense to attempt to confine, and control/extinguish fire that has posession of several rooms, or a large portion of a dwelling with a hoseline that is incapable of flowing the required amount of GPM's. Especially a lrger structure, as what I see depicted here, with what I consider a good amount of fire visible.
Try all you like, even with the best of manueverability, the smaller line isn't going to put a hurtin' on alot of fire. 1.5", and even 1.75" hoselines are basically meant for single, and maybe a couple rooms off. Problem is, they are used for just about everything anymore, including exposure protection. So when the times comes for the bigger line, it's left on the engine becouse nobody has trained, or used one for an actual fire ATTACK in soooo long, they are intimidated. One thing for sure, stretch the big line, put it inplace, open it up, and you'll put a knock on the fire. You'll MAKE progress!
Besides not using, or training with the 2.5"HANDLINE, the next problem is affixing the adjustible nozzles to them, requiring 100psi at the tip to obtain the required flow. Yes, THOSE are a Bear to move around with that much pressure! The object is to use the ability of the line to throw alot of water, at a pretty decent distance, move it around the room a few times...you'll knock it down!...then move on to the next room. They can come behind you with the smaller line to knock down the rest of what's left.
No offense...I aint trying to give you lessons on what you probabaly already understand. But I hear that statement far too many times, and yet everyday there are departments, an not always the big city boys, either...that train, and pull the big line. Heck, if it is indicated on commercial occupanices, residential occupanices with heavy fire should be no different.
With the fire depicted here, I would CERTAINLY order a big line to the doorway. It'll be knocked down MUCH faster.
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