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Freedom Group Protests Cross at Charleston Firehouse
JEFFREY COLLINS
Associated Press Writer
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A group that supports the separation of religion and state wants a cross removed from in front of a Charleston fire station that city officials say honors nine firefighters killed battling a furniture store blaze.
The fight over the cross extends from a battle the Freedom from Religion Foundation had with the city last December when the group complained about a nativity scene in front of the same fire station. Officials added secular decorations, including snowmen, to comply with the law.
Most of the decorations came down by the new year, but the cross stayed up, the city saying it was now a memorial to the firefighters killed in June 2007, said Rebecca Markert, a lawyer for the foundation.
The foundation didn't buy the explanation, sending a letter last week to the city threatening to sue if the cross is not removed because it violates the U.S. Constitution by endorsing a specific religion. The group also said for the past five years the same cross had been removed at the same time as the Christmas items.
"We believe it is a sham to say it is now part of a permanent memorial when before it was being put up and taken down in December as part of Christmas," Markert said Tuesday.
The cross rests near a stone memorial with the names of the nine Charleston firefighters killed as they fought a blaze at the Sofa Super Store.
Lawyers for the city told officials it was a legal display because it is a secular emblem of death.
"The message communicated by the cross is clearly one of honoring fallen firefighters and not of furthering a religious purpose," lawyers for the city said in a news release.
The letter from the foundation gave the city a May 14 deadline to take down the cross.
Related
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Associated Press Writer
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A group that supports the separation of religion and state wants a cross removed from in front of a Charleston fire station that city officials say honors nine firefighters killed battling a furniture store blaze.
The fight over the cross extends from a battle the Freedom from Religion Foundation had with the city last December when the group complained about a nativity scene in front of the same fire station. Officials added secular decorations, including snowmen, to comply with the law.
Most of the decorations came down by the new year, but the cross stayed up, the city saying it was now a memorial to the firefighters killed in June 2007, said Rebecca Markert, a lawyer for the foundation.
The foundation didn't buy the explanation, sending a letter last week to the city threatening to sue if the cross is not removed because it violates the U.S. Constitution by endorsing a specific religion. The group also said for the past five years the same cross had been removed at the same time as the Christmas items.
"We believe it is a sham to say it is now part of a permanent memorial when before it was being put up and taken down in December as part of Christmas," Markert said Tuesday.
The cross rests near a stone memorial with the names of the nine Charleston firefighters killed as they fought a blaze at the Sofa Super Store.
Lawyers for the city told officials it was a legal display because it is a secular emblem of death.
"The message communicated by the cross is clearly one of honoring fallen firefighters and not of furthering a religious purpose," lawyers for the city said in a news release.
The letter from the foundation gave the city a May 14 deadline to take down the cross.
Related
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Jack, instead of the religious labels, how about just saying "good people"?
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Permalink Reply by David "slick" Rivers on
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Think these people need to get out and find them a real job....Proud to support the city of Charleston if they decide not to take it down.....and ashamed if they do....Proud to support our brothers and sister and if they dont want to! They can send it up here to Ruby SC and we will be honored to do so....
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Permalink Reply by Steve Kidd on
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The men and women of the Charleston Fire Department have been through enough, and have handled their grief with grace. If they find comfort in the display of their faith in front of a single firehouse, then we should stand beside them and defend them against anyone who dares to give them any more grief. I know that Chief Tom Carr will defend them to his last breath, as he is certainly a stand-up guy and a good friend. We can all learn a lot from Chief Carr’s grace and wisdom. I sure have learned from him over the years.
The most vocal of you are showing an absolute paranoia against religion. For example: “Keep your religion out of my firehouse…” There are 2690 miles separating CFD Station 12 and the nearest firehouse in Spokane, Washington, so I hardly think they are encroaching on your space or forcing anything on you. The chances of you driving your rig by CFD Station 12 are about as likely as you driving by the man-in-the-moon. Therefore, one can only surmise that you are afraid of religion and it’s values, thinking it will encroach on your “freedom”.
In my opinion you are lost, but in keeping with your request, I won’t bring my religion into your firehouse. Instead I will simply make sure to ask the men at tomorrow’s prayer breakfast in my Church here in Orlando (2808 miles from your firehouse) to pray for you, peacefully in our Church, and not in your Firehouse, just as you suggest. I also ask that the rest of you folks reading this do the same. After all, the mantra of our Brotherhood is “Everyone Goes HOME”.
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AMEN.....Steve....
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I wonder what non religious symbol all these crackpots would like us to put on the tombstones of all the veterans who have give their lives so these crackpots can continue to complain
Have you ever looked at such a tombstone before? The symbol on them denotes the religious beliefs of the service member and has nothing to do with a common non-religious symbol. For instance Jewish servicemembers have a Star of David, Catholics and Christians have a cross, and so forth. The religious symbols on tombstones like those in Arlinton depict the individual's religious beliefs, and really doesn't factor into this topic.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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A fascinating read. If only to note just how many people only see small parts of a person's post that they choose to disagree with. Then we can look at comments written by those who have obviously NOT read the whole thread.
If I was ever to have a grave stone it would not have any religious symbol marked on it. It would not have that "Atheist" symbol offered by Arlington. If anything I would have the emblem of the Australian Army, an emblem I am entitled to. As I always say, to each his or her own belief.
It was mentioned early in the thread about people 'ramming' their religious beliefs down the throats of others. Different allusions to that have been posted since. I take that term as when someone talks to you forcefully or continuously about their beliefs when you have advised them that you are not interested. Like those people who come ringing my doorbell in an attempt to expound their religious beliefs to me. Doorbell ringers are told politely that 'I'm not interested' - if they say anything further I am no longer polite, abusive is more like it, those people really annoy me.
I am pleased to hear that Charleston will be able to keep the cross they want in remembrance of their fallen members. As long as it doesn't offend the members there. Even as a non-religious person it certainly wouldn't offend me!
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Permalink Reply by Ken Lees on
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I am almost left speechless. Who are these idiots, and what makes them any better than those people who believe.
I don't know the politics or the reality of why the cross was put up.
If the city is hiding behind our fallen brothers and sisters, then they are no better.
Firefighters have enough to worry about every time the alarms ring or the pagers go off, that they don't need to have some (you pick the name) coming and attacking them because it doesnt' conform to their belief.
All of our brothers and sisters who have fallen deserve respect from all of it's community and government.
What happened to freedom of expression?
Do you not think that the people who risk their lives for you deserve at least that much?
Firefighters don't do it for themselves, they do it for their family, friends and every other person out there.
Next time your house is on fire, and someone is stuck inside, remember who is coming to save your loved ones.
Or if you keep up your antics, and there is nobody left to respond to your fire, remember it is all your fault.
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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Ben, I can show you evidence: A Charleston fire station, which is funded by taxpayer dollars, is displaying religious icons.
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The cross was part of the Christmas display, but when the court case came they re-purposed it to be a memorial for the guys who got killed in that warehouse fire a few years back.
Shameless.
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For those of you quoting the recent SCOTUS case about the cross in the Mojave Desert (Salazar v Buono) I recommend reading up on it to see exactly why so many advocates of religious freedom are opposed to this. A Buddhist wanted to erect a similar symbol of his faith, and was threatened with prosecution for it.
This was followed by Congress passing a bunch of BS laws to thwart the existing regulations regarding religious displays on public property, right down to where they allowed the few square feet that the cross stands on to be sold to the local VFW post so it wasn't on federal land. The court basically ruled that the sale was legal. Congress passed a special law allowing this particular sale of Federal land, and the court (split yet again along ideological lines) basically agreed with Congress.
All of this is to whip up the religious base and turn this into yet another "culture war" issue to further divide the country. What used to be a brotherhood of firefighters now falls apart into separate camps. All I want to do is serve my community, my values, and my country, instead we get this happy horse crap where apparently a bunch of us aren't American enough.
It's a shame.
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Here's the Wiki page on the above mentioned case. Short, sharp summary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salazar_v._Buono
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Ben - it's on public property. As a non-Christian, I don't want my tax dollars evangelising. The First Amendment and a ton of precedent is pretty clear on this.
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