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Foam Units
In my county, we have two dedicated Foam Units, identical E-One Titan II 4x4 crash trucks that they keep at one of the stations near I-95. They aren't staffed full-time, but two of the crew on the engine are technicians and staff it if it's needed. I was wondering, how many people have foam units, what kind are they, and how often do they get used?
Foam 426 on one of the two calls it gets on average a year. This was a two alarm service station fire that happened on Thursday.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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Don't have any here mainly because of cost versus use.
Wondering why two are needed in your area with such a low response rate. Have any major airports near the station? Do the surrounding areas take advantage of them with MA?
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Halverson on
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Sorry, I forgot to mention that one's a reserve. The nearest airport is Ronald Reagan, but MWAA (Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority) covers that. One of the other explorers who rides along at that station tells me that the way they park it, the plug for the battery recharger is on the wrong side, so they just run it through the cab, wrapped around the driver's side door handle, and into the plug. Thats how many calls they get.
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Permalink Reply by John L. VanAuken on
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We dont have persay a foam engine, there are Depts in Boise, ID that have one for the Airport. We however do have one engine that is equiped with a foam unit so that all we have to do is flip a switch and it automaticaly switches to it if we need it. Came in handy when the Bio Deisel plant blew and became our first big fire of its kind, in New Plymouths history. I dont know if we will realy use one enough to justify the cost of getting one for our Dept. heck may never use it, less called for mutual aid. My Q is do you have a major Airport, or a lot of Fuel storage stations, and what other things contribute to the need of a foam engine in your area? Just wonderen it is an interesting topic, and you know how curiosity killed the cat.
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The only thing I can really think of is that the station is right off I-95, and there was an gasoline tanker leak back in the late 80's, they might have put it in after that. The one place they do have a potential major incident is the Mantua tank farm in the City of Fairfax. The city has it's own Fire Department, and the first due engine to the tank farm is a foam engine, but if that thing got touched off, it would not be pretty.
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Permalink Reply by Roy Walker on
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Jonathan how do your guys stay proficient on the unit? With only two calls a year and the cost of training I don't know how it can be justified. The cost of the foam alone is signifigant in todays economy. No doubt when they are needed they are nice to have but with no real requirement well.........there should maybe be more bang for the buck.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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As long as you brought up the use of foam... :D
Do you have large quantities of AR-AFFF? Why?
Ethanol based fuels do not respond to water or AFFF extinguishing agents.
Ethanol is a polar solvent (alcohol), which floats on water.
Ethanol fires, where water is added, results in the problem being moved where ever the water flows, with the burning ethanol fuel on top...
Ethanol fires require a lot of foam to deal with the problem... Take for example a tanker truck filled with E-85 fuel, and put yourself in Baltimore, on a freeway overpass... with a fully involved MC-306 trailer...
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These firefighters did not know right off the get go that they were dealing, which was an ethanol based fire. Many of you won't know until you figure out that the fire is not going out. This in my opinion is going to be one of the major issues that the fire service will have to deal with in the next 2-5 years. Production is increasing for ethanol based fuels due to both dependency on foreign oils and environmental issues. The only problem is that the fire service is left holding the bag... Not everyone has AR-AFFF, and large quantities to enable successful extinguishment. Just letting it burn may become the normal tactic in the future...
TCSS,
CBz
"Failure to prepare is preparing for failure... Be prepared... Your life may depend on it!"
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I'm not sure what they do officially to stay proficient on it, but I do know they take it out and play with it a few times a year. As for the cost, I don't think they train a whole bunch of people, just if they need someone new, they'll train them.
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Permalink Reply by Dyke Yeager on
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We run a combination unit known as Foam 10. Its a 1986 Pierce with a 1500gpm pump , 500gal water tank and a Fecon balanced proportioner system and 350gal foam concentrate tank. We have the capabilty to throw foam @ ratios from 1% to 10% thru 3 of the 1-3/4" lines, a 2-1/2" line or the deck gun at the same time also maintaing water lines of any combo. We were fortunate to recieve the truck as a donation when a local microelectronics mfg. closed its plant in our 1st due area. Since we aquired the truck it only seen action as a foam unit 1 time, that was when a gasoline tanker caught fire earlier this year. The county haz-mat team also uses trailers placed in different stations with foam and appliances as a task force.
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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A few of the counties around Wash DC have had some sort of foam units. Back in the late 50s to the early 60s my station had a American La France Little Mo on a Dodge Chassis which also served as a brush unit with a turrent. Another county station also had one.
Some stations at times had a airport crash truck or a industrial foam unit or a pumper converted to operate has a foam unit. We had units North and South to cover the county and the many highways that run through it but the county has only one unit now stationed for a small airport near a college campus which is a converted pumper with numerous 5 Gal cans of foam carried on it.
If we need another foam unit it will come off the air force base.
There has been many times that foam uints were needed for gasoline tanker crashes or small aircraft accidents around our county.
I have been on one gasoline tanker crash and trying to control it with a 1 1/2 foam line and a few cans of AFFF until help showed up. We were the first pumper on one side of all that fire while others were coming from the otherside and from behind us.
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We also carry approx. 28gals of concentrate and appliances on each of our other engines. Its a start until the bigger units arrive.
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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I used to ride at the station Ashfire mentions below - we ran a 1968 American LaFrance Pumper equipped as a foam unit. Today, I think they are running the 1977 Mack (which was our front-line pumper when I was a member) in fact...they have a link with pictures: http://www.cpvfd.org/apparatus.php
Tricking a pumper out as a foam unit gave several advantages over a crash-truck like Fairfax County has. It is a class A pump, and technically can be a class A pumper if you put the right hose-load on it. it had purpose built 2 1/2" attack lines with matched foam eductors and nozzles, a short section of supply line (it was anticipated other pumpers could provide water supply) and filled almost the entire hosebed with 5 gallon buckets of AFFF concentrate. We could put almost perfect finished foam in 3 or 6% (for non-polar and polar liquids) concentrations for as long as we had a supply of water, and a supply of foam concentrate. In theory, pre-positioned "foam dumps" would have more concentrate en route before we ran out.
this worked because we made foam the same way a regular pumper makes it, by attacheing an eductor to the side of the pumper and dumping the foam into a trash-can to draw from. There was no internal tank to re-fill, and no internal workings to fiddle with.
A crash truck is faster, and is brilliant for a quick attack (like at an airport). Unfortunately the "reset time" once the crash truck has shot its wad makes it basically ineffective after the initial attack. If you arrive to an involved flammable liquids fire, the only way to fight it is with a prolonged attack. The hot metal and wreckage will burn holes through your foam, and you need to keep flowing to cool that down and repair your blanket. The guys who set that truck up (well before my time) were brilliant. It was slow, brutal work, but man was it effective.
Also - the station ran that truck as a hazmat support, bringing the total calls per year up to maybe 5-10.
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One thing to add to this is how many stations are support sites that have storage for foam. Our sub station had a large cabinet where cans of AFFF and absorbent was kept. If something came up the station pickup truck would be loaded with the cans or absorbent and carried to the incident. This might take time loading and if the station is already out and another crew has to respond there to do it but you had the needed foam for the incident until a larger unit showed up.
On the gasoline tanker fire we were using 500 gal of tank water and the 3 or 4 cans of AFFF we had. We had to knock down the fire that was rolling down the side of the roadway until we could get near the tanker. What made it bad was that people had parked their cars along the side of the road and the fire was moving that way and two of them were firefighters that lived nearby.
What caused the crash was three cows that got loose and and were standing on the roadway when the tanker came along at 55 MPH at 9PM. The driver was safe but there was alot of BBQ.
I have been on our county forum asking why we don't have another foam unit to cover the Southern end of the county maybe even a trailer that can be towed to a incident and hooked to a pumper or pumper tanker that has the turrents and preconnected hose.
Maybe because most of the pumpers have foam tanks and systems built into them now since I joined in 1973.
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