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Flashover, what the hell were they thinking?
As you can see, the room is already lit up. Apparently they are in no rush to get the ladder off the rig and in place. So......WTF?
http://e.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http%3A%2F%2Fbli...
http://e.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http%3A%2F%2Fbli...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by T.J. on
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Looks like poor training on Flashovers in their department, we all need to know the signs of a flashover and he must have missed that class. Of coarse I was not there but it looks like it's all ready through the roof and on fully involved on the b-side, so what were they thinking about when they entered the home, to me thats a suround and drown. Our saftey NEEDS to come first over saving a home that will be torn down anyways!
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Permalink Reply by kenny goines on
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That was a loser to start with, large vent fire directly above the area of entry, lucky noone was involved in a collapse. The IC should have noticed or at least been made aware of the extent of involvement to what appears to be the attic, and not sent them in.
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Permalink Reply by Allen on
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Just looking at the Video, it has all the classic signs of flash over waiting to happen. There was no way i would have gone in, i aggree with TJ, suround and drown on that one. If there had been anyone in there they would not have survived anyway. Everyones order of protection saying should be "Me, We, They" Varry from that at all and you get hurt.
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Tom on
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Well given that none of us were there, it's hard to see the whole size up. That being said, I don't believe we are seeing flashover here. That room appears to be fully involved when the firefighter enters the window. Verticle ventalation would have helped in this case for sure, but tough to do under these conditions unless you have an aerial available and it looks like the engine was blocking the access for the aerial anyway. Notice how the room is pretty dark before they break the window, then it lights off after it gets freash air? This is just feeding oxygen to a starved section of the fire, or ventalation from a different direction. Agreed he should not have gone in. Basicly he made access through the vent hole. The floor below appears to be fully involved and this sets up a floor collapse. Getting the roof vented well would have cleared the air and given the fire a different path other than to head for the window.
Lets just be thankful the firefighter knew the signs to get out, otherwise we would have another name on "the list". This video shows that fighting fire is like playing chess and you have to think several moves ahead in order to turn the tide.
Lets all be safe out there,
Lt. Tom
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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Its almost like the guy wasn’t even looking, who in their right would go into that without a line, bet he had an oh-shit moment when he realized what he stepped into. I’m going to guess they have a victim, but still, once they broke the window it got the fresh air it was looking for, hell the 2nd guy almost went in. Their has to be a reason for this, maybe a may-day, I don’t know, I just can’t see anyone being that stupid, but I’ve been wrong before.
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Permalink Reply by John on
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That should have been a defensive attack from what I saw of the video, the fire self-ventilated on the b-side, and appeared to be almost fully involved.
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Permalink Reply by Dennis Brown on
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I agree with you Lt.it would have been nice to see the whole thing or it would be nice to get a copy of this for training
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Permalink Reply by Bill Muehsam on
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One very lucky firefighter!!! Not something I would have allowed my crew to attempt without at least a hoseline pulled and some sort of protection in place for the crew making entry. Stop, slow down (don't be in a hurry to get hurt!!), get a good assessment, and then execute the IAP!!!!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Tom Lambui on
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Lt. Tom, I agree with the "given that none of us were there, it's hard to see the whole size up". But as far as your comment "Notice how the room is pretty dark before they break the window, then it lights off after it gets freash air? " If you watch the video again, you'll see that the room is already lit up, you can see the fire rolling overhead across the ceiling, and as far as your statement "That being said, I don't believe we are seeing flashover here", I don't think I've ever seen a clearer case of flashover. Sorry.
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Permalink Reply by ECB on
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This was posted in another forum, and is from the individual in the video..
well, here goes my first website post ever,but when my friends said my 15 minutes was happening, i had to look.
I’m the guy in the video, and against my better judgement, i feel the need to set this thing straight.
First off, i’m a captain in indianapolis, and have 23 years in the busiest companies in the city. I’ve been to a couple of fires.
Because you weren’t there, i would tell you to watch the video again after i explain things, and maybe you’ll think differently.
This was a 4:00 am fire dispatched as entrapment, with excitement in the dispatchers voice. We were the first ladder company on the scene, and we were met with cars in the driveway, and neighbors screaming that there was a woman in that room.
Because of the involvement in the rest of the house, VES was going to be the only option on this one.
When we vent the window with the ladder, it looks like the room is burning, but the flames you see are coming from the hallway, and entering through the top of the bedroom doorway. Watch it again and you’ll see the fire keeps rolling in and across the ceiling.
When i get to the window sill, the queen-sized bed is directly against the window wall, so there is no way to “check the floor” like the textbook geeks gigged me for not doing. Notice that you continue to see my feet going in, because i’m on the bed.
Believe me, in the beginning, this was a tenable room both for me and for any victim that would have been in there. How else could i have been on the bed, 3 feet above the floor, calmly entering. Trust me when i say that i know what hot is, and this was no hotter than any other fire i’ve been in.
My goal was to get to the door and close it, just like VES is supposed to be done. We do it successfully all the time.
When i reached the other side of the bed, i dropped to the floor and began trying to close the door. Unfortunately, due to debris on the floor, the door would not close.
Conditions were still quite tenable at this point, but i knew with the amount of fire entering at the upper level, and smoke conditions changing, things were going to go south fast. As stated earlier, i’ve been doing this for 23 years, and i know fire behavior.
I kept my eyes on my exit point, and finished my search, including the closet, which had no doors on it. Just as i was a few feet from the window, the room lit off, and the rest is history, and fodder for all the self-proclaimed experts.
It’s hard for me to imagine that firefighters who weren’t there can find so much fault with a firefighter who did exactly what we’re supposed to do. For you textbook geeks, that means risking a lot to save a savable life. Like i said earlier, when i first made this room, it was NOT on fire like the video makes it look. I’ll give you this much; once the flashover occurred, no civilian could have survived, but if she would have been in there, maybe, just maybe i could have gotten her out before it happened.
I have to wonder what you would be saying if the video showed me just staying at the top of the ladder, never entering like many of you suggested, and later we found her corpse lying on the other side of the bed. Instead of calling me an idiot, you’d call me a coward. I’ll take idiot any time!
To “Dave” from my department who said he’d guess that i would probably look back now and say it wasn’t the smartest thing to do, you’re absolutely right. It was the ONLY thing to do. And if i’m faced with that exact same situation a hundred more times, i’ll be in that window every time, because i’m a fireman.
And if anyone wonders why i was aware of my surroundings at all times, why i was able to recognize when flashover was imminent, and why i pulled off a head-first ladder slide without a hitch….TRAINING!
To the guy who said i had no facepiece on..you’re freakin’ joking right? What you see dangling is my hand-lantern. Do you carry one?
And to the guy who says i have no tool, look at the axe handle sticking out of my SCBA belt. It’s not in my hand, because when i do a search, i know when i’m touching a body with my hand. When i hit it with a tool, it’s anyone’s guess what i’m touching. But i ALWAYS have a tool.
In closing, i would only suggest that when you watch a video from now on, remember that you weren’t there.
And if you were faced with the same situation, with the exact same conditions i was faced with, if you wouldn’t have done the same thing, then i’m glad you’re not on my job.
stay safe brothers
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Having read that.....great job, and glad your still with us
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