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Flashover, what the hell were they thinking?
As you can see, the room is already lit up. Apparently they are in no rush to get the ladder off the rig and in place. So......WTF?
http://e.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http%3A%2F%2Fbli...
http://e.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http%3A%2F%2Fbli...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I teach and have done alot of VES. Here is my take on this video and I am sure it will not be the popular from FFN.
The left window was showing some signs of early fire entering the room in the background before the window was popped. As stated by the brother there... it appeared to be entering into the room from the hallway and not the room itself on fire. (He was there) I noted it wasn't pushing heavy, thick, acrid smoke under large volume as was the other window was, which leads me to belive the two windows do not communicate either. VES - The technique to quickly enter, control the hallway door and close it is on par with training. As previosuly posted, "We weren't there!" The decision to go or not go and the timing for completion of VES will vary amongst all of us. Some here on FFN have no clue what VES, will never do this because it is not performed behind a firehose, not to mention many have never done it for real, under real fire conditions.
The VES team's edcuation, experience, and the quality of the firefighter(s) involved determine how quickly and safely the task will be performed. I have seen students take 5 mintues to control the door because it is their first time doing the evolution in FAKE smoke... I have seen others make the door in seconds.
Dependant on the dispatch or occupant reports of victims trapped or incident command's orders of the likelyhood of people or small children trapped in a specific upper level room, then VES is the only option to possibly making a grab! Is it dangerous? ABSOLUTELY. Probably one of the most dangerous positions to be in for a given few minutes on the fireground... unless you work on a true rescue company, then you usually operate without the protection of a line on a regular basis.
The debate over this video clip would be non-existant, if hallway door could have been controlled as the firefighter intended to do. He and his partner would have cleared that room successfully and nobody would have been critiquing this incident. Close call yes, absolutely... his experience and survival training saved his life that morning! It was a calculated risk to enter... some say "I would enter" for others "no way" but to list off a bunch of non-sense of this and that beforehand is crap. These busy and experienced jakes who were doing their job that morning and they all went home.
TCSS, FETC
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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I knew there had to be more to this then meets the eye. It’s good we got the whole story, I still not sure I would go in, but second guessing at this computer is pretty easy, no split second decisions here. I may as him what the hell he was thinking, but tell him good job.
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Permalink Reply by Cory on
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Go to, cancel the engine group, then Vent entered search, and you can click on a link to lead you to or you can just type in www.vententersearch.com and that will lead you to where Capt Rick Van Sant makes his comment that was posted on the previous page.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Risk a lot to save a lot...risk a little to save a little...what I see is a parking lot...just they don't know it yet....this is how our people get hurt and killed each year....No-way should an entry be made here in my opinion.....it has already vented itself and is waiting in ready for a foolhardy soul....Beast is a sneaky little bastard.................Paul
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Permalink Reply by Barbara Nelson on
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I have done some things that a monday morning quarter back would say was dumb too. But when you know that you have someone in there and know there is a chance I don't know a single fire fighter that would not take the risk to save someone. From his side of the story he was very much on top his game. I think that his training and experiance show through on this call.
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Sorry Barb....But from the information given they have NO business going inside....yes if there is a survivable condition with a victim inside then by all means take all measures necessary...BUT tyhis has already gotten way past the point of a save....if there isn't a victim in there then stay the heck out...this is a defensive situation....Paul
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I looked at the video a couple more times again. You are right by the time he hit the bed the fire was across the celing on its way our the window. That would be too much heat to survive without gear. My only question when I first saw the video was why he did not have a charged line with him. He could have fought the fire back with that and then shut the door. But videos like this are good for training, the what ifs, the what would I do? It makes you think. Like the near miss reporting system. The more we learn the safer we will be.
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Permalink Reply by kenny goines on
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The roof had already self vented, no way should anybody have been on it!
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Permalink Reply by Justin Westmoreland on
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Seen that video on vententersearch.com That firefighter comments about that situation to try and make heards or tails of what happened to everyone that commented on the video.
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Permalink Reply by James on
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The firefighter that went in didn't even have a nomex hood on. Probably lost all the skin on his ears.
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Permalink Reply by Colin Paul Hanna on
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Well spoken Eric,
I don't often jump into forums but was well into the second paragraph denouncing the armchair critics when I finally read your clarification.
Two things for them to ponder:
1. The calm and deliberate manner the ladder was raised, cleared the sash and positioned for rescue.
2. The calm entry, egress and ladder slide.
This was not the actions of some of our more hairbrained weekend warriors setting fire to a house full of gasoline fumes with subsequent explosion or a fire prevention day in a house built of pallets fully involved prior to "trained" egos crawling in to exit themselves ignited seconds later.
This was the work of a calm, well trained and more importantly, PROPERLY motivated professional doing the job right.
A tip of my Cairns and a hand on my heart to you, Sir!
Colin Hanna
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Well spoken Eric,
I don't often jump into forums but was well into the second paragraph denouncing the armchair critics when I finally read your clarification.
Two things for them to ponder:
1. The calm and deliberate manner the ladder was raised, cleared the sasha and positioned for self rescue.
2. The calm entry, egress and ladder bail out.
3. No running to or fro, yelling or screaming (like that helps). Just calculated action.
This was not the actions of some of our more hairbrained weekend warriors setting fire to a house full of gasoline fumes with subsequent explosion or a fire prevention day in a house built of pallets fully involved prior to "trained" egos crawling in to exit themselves ignited seconds later.
This was the work of a calm, well trained and more importantly, PROPERLY motivated individual doing the job right.
I preach and teach "Train to Live - Live to Train" with every thought, decision and action we make.
Being better isn't watching and criticizing - it's listening, hearing, understanding and practising.
A tip of my Cairns and a hand on my heart to you, Sir!
Colin Hanna
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