Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on January 8, 2012 at 11:23am

Good morning 55Truck, It's no mystery that I am one of the more aggressive users of graphics and photos here on the FFN. With that said, and noting that you have had over 50 people look at this forum post, but yet not comment reinforces the point that most folks just won't take the time to look at a link. You have to do the homework for them, actually posting the photographs in order to elicit a response.

So, to help you out, I provide the following:

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

Keeping it simple, and at first glance having the impression that all of these calls are kind of SCARIE, especially the incidents that occurred in the PM, I think the most important factor to consider is Safety.

For Company Officers faced with these types of incidents, I developed years ago an acronym to help remind you how to affectively deal with any kind of incident. All you have to do is memorize the following, SCARIE PMS.

S - Size Up

C - Establish Command

A - Ask for Assistance

R - Determine whether or not a Rescue is needed

I   - Isolate the incident 

E - Evacuate or shelter in place

If safe to so...

P - find a Person responsible (liaison) that has an intimate understanding of the situation or building

M - Material ID if you can do it uphill, upwind, etc.

S- Always remember to think about Safety

©2012 Michael Schlags

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Permalink Reply by Nathan Henderson on January 8, 2012 at 2:59pm

I'll take a crack at #4 since it's the most similar to the structures in my area.

We don't have trucks in my department so I'll look at this from the first in engines officers seat.

My first action since we are a from home vol dept would be to call in mutual aid resources asap so I can get help on the way.

Pulling up to this incident, I would have my engine stretch an attack line and make entry through the front door with the plan to attack the fire on floor 2 while I do my size up and 360 walk.

My next unit in would secure the water supply for the first engine and stretch a second line and depending on what the report is for victims, either start a search on floor 2 or ventilation.

If a rescue was needed, my third in would be ventilation. If not, they would be my back up crew, RIT or sent to assist with the vent crew depending on what my interior crew give me for info and how/where I need to vent the structure.

As more resources were available, I would set up rehab/staging/establishing an IC post and so on.

It's difficult to be 100% sure on how/what you would do with a structure as the first in when your looking at a picture due to only being able to see a piece of a puzzle and not having any of the dispatch/occupant info that goes along with actually responding to the call. This is just what I would expect to do from the puzzle piece I have been given with this picture.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on January 8, 2012 at 7:53pm

Well if riding the back as a FF, the job is pretty easy....listen to what the officer says. :-)

 

Now considering the question at hand and the simplicity of it, I agree with BZ, you would think there would be some more comments. It is asking what you would do, so as for that aspect, for me it truly can vary. I can be riding the seat on the ambulance and end up first in and potentially taking command. I could be driving and duties change...if driving the ambulance I marry up with the truck and do truck work, if the engine...well pumping. I could also be riding backwards on the pump or ladder. So anyways.....with anything it helps to take a standard approach with any scene. For the most part, the first in officer does a 360 and takes command, gas supply is usually turned off then too......rescue priority is assessed if any reports of people trapped......otherwise, 2 FF's on the tailboards lay out lines and readies for fire attack. Ladder will throw ground ladders and get ready to vent....be it PPA, PPV, Verticle, Horizontal, search and rescue, forcible entry, etc. Ambulance marries up to do truck work.

 

So picture 1.......

2 story wood frame, fire showing from garage and smoke from house...

Pump FF....stretch a line, can't see the back, but looks to be an attached garage. Depending on 360, I would be looking to stretch to the front door and make a push to the garage and make an attack.

 

Ladder FF...ground ladders to house for the search and check for extension which will come. set up fan for vent. utility control, possible search

 

Ambo....Command, 1st in report, 360, shut off gas....look initially for fire attack as mentioned. Get ready to search and check extension.

 

Pic#2.....

Split level, wood frame, looks to be garage fire...

 

Engine...would do what crews are doing in the pic, line to doo and make a push

Ladder....as above ground ladders, search

Ambo...search

 

Pic #3..

2 story wood frame....guessing to be apartments, heavy fire in the rear, heavy smoke from seconf floor.

 

Engine.... stretch a line....would be considering a 2 1/2 blitz line, look to knock out bulk of exterior fire

Ladder... Ground ladders, forcible entry, prepare for vert vent

Ambo... 360, search

 

If command or pump engineer, I would be looking at exposure control as a priority and if this was my viewpoint from the rig, look to hit the fire with a deck gun and have 2 1/2" line hitting the bulk of the exterior fire. Interior ops would depend on what is seen on a 360, possible victims, and what we see after bulk of exterior fire knocked down.

 

Pic#4

2 1/2 stroy wood frame residential, fire showing from AB corner.

 

Engine...as seen in pic, line to door and look to make a push upstairs.

Ladder...Ground ladders, vent

Ambo...360, search

 

Pic#5

3 Story wood frame apartment/condo complex, heavy fire from 3rd floor A side

 

360 is paramount here, depends on access to building (can't see from pic). I would guess this view is actually the "C" side as opposed to "A" side because of the dumpsters I would venture to guess most places wouldn't have dumpsters out in front of such a complex. So while there is heavy fire, it is possible access from the front can accomodate a quick stretch and get an interior knockdown. Rescue and ensureing other units are clear will be a command priority for other incoming rigs.

 

Engine...stretch a line look to make an interior attack...depending on 360. I could see a transitional attack as possibilty too, quick hit from outside before going in, if warranted.

 

Ladder...ground ladders, search, force entry, vent

ambo...search rescue, utilities.

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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on January 9, 2012 at 3:03pm

I'll go with pic #2 since we have many of these structures in our response area.  Being a Truck Officer, the 1st thing I would due to call in the size up as follows, "Dispatch...Truck 3's on scene 12345 Main St. with heavy fire showing from the attached garage of a 2.5 story split level residential...Please strike a second residential alarm for this zone and notify the Administration...truck 3 will be Command operating on Tac Channel #3.

We have designated job assignments based on riding positions which saves a tremendous amount of time.  Myself and the member that rides behind me would exit the apparatus and as I complete a 360, he/she would force the front door. 

 The Truck driver/operator knows to get his/her aerial to the roof, throw ground ladders to the upper floors, and prepare for OV. After I complete the 360, myself and the member riding behind me will enter the structure and make a hard bee line to the interior door leading to the garage.  We'll close this door and radio to the Engine Co where it is.  The Engine Co will stretch an 1.75" smoothbore line in the front door and to our position and begin knocking the fire. 

Myself and the other Truck member will then begin our search from that point back . At this point, I will radio the Truck Driver/operator to begin OV, secure the utilities, and then meet us in the interior.  By this time, the 2nd due Eng Co will have arrived and I would assign them to a back up line already stretched to the front door by the 1st due Engine Driver/Operator.  They would then proceed interior and protect our means of egress. The 2nd due Engine Driver/Operator will establish the water supply for the first due Engine which will already have a dry suuply line stretched to the nearest hydrant.

By this time the first due Medic unit will have arrived and they will be assigned to another 1. 75" line that has been stretched to up the driveway to the garage and they will also attack the fire as well.  The Chief would have arrived by now and I would pass Command to him/her. 

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Permalink Reply by Nathan Henderson on January 9, 2012 at 6:57pm

I'm like you John. I could end up in any seat on any of the apparatus. Figured going with the officers job would be the most challenging.

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Permalink Reply by Aric Stewart on January 9, 2012 at 7:15pm

i will take a stab at picture 3.  

Engine Officer, i would stop at the fire plug and grab it proceed to scene call in initial size-up.

Engine 1 dispatch we have a 2 story wood frame house with fire and heavy smoke showing, exposures on both B and D side of structure with extension to both exposures, Engine 1-A establishing combat command. Strike a 2nd alarm.

first would pull 2 1.75 preconnects and start with the exposures trying to protect and extinguish what fire is there.  By this time a chief should be arriving and pass command to him/her.  Next i would do a primary search of both exposures. By this time a second engine should have arrived and i would have them drop a 21/2 and start attacking the main fire building.  Would have the first truck company to start Ventilation and secure utilities. I would then take the first engine crew and see if entry is possible and see if an interior attack is feasible. 

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Permalink Reply by Capt. Chris W. Button on January 10, 2012 at 10:53am

In all scenarios I would set up command, request RIT if not on the way already, and request 2nd alarms on the bigger fires (#1,3, & 5).

 

Picture 1: Looks like an attached garage to me as well. Enter through the front door while someone disconnects utilities and does 360. Advance 1.75" line towards garage to slow the spread or extinguish. Second crew in would start a search. Third crew would use TIC and/or start pulling the walls/ceiling and attacking with a second line as it looks like it may be getting into the main house. I don't want any hidden fire popping out and taking the rest of the house. (Side note: At first glance, I thought the rocking chair on the side porch was a person looking in the window!)

 

Picture 2: Looks like a split level. (I hate fires in them!) Advance through front door and try to hit the garage while someone does a 360 and disconnects utilities. Another crew needs to go upstairs and check for extension. Another crew needs to search.

 

Picture 3: Deck gun or Ladder pipe to protect exposures. It's doubtful anyone would be alive in that middle structure.

 

Picture 4: 360 & disconnect utilities. Advance to second floor. Definite priority placed on searching because it's at night.

 

Picture 5: Try not to make a parking lot!

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Permalink Reply by Moose on January 10, 2012 at 11:06am

I will add to #4 and what Nathan already started.  This is a Balloon type frame, we have them all over in my district and they pose a big threat to fire spread with the open bays from the foundation up.  Being this fire is on the second floor, the attic may be well involved by the time the first in crew stretches and they need to be aware of this possibility.  And never discount the fact the fire could spread Down either, by falling debris and embers the first floor could get ripping while your on the second floor.

My concerns as Captain;

Call for lots of manpower and tankers (My area has no hydrants and we rely on tanker ops)

First crews on scene conducts search to the fire with a line, looking for fire spread as well.

Second crews stretch line to check for extention into attic and back up first line.

Additional crews will make trench cuts on the siding to vent heat from wall bays and attempt to stop further spread of fire into attic via the stud channel.  Use of thermal imagers to look for areas of concern.

Confine and extinguish, salvage what we can if crews are available.

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Permalink Reply by Michael McCarthy on January 10, 2012 at 11:51am

#1

Manpower has alot to due with this one and whats following you and the time frame that it will take for them to get there. If you are operating with a normal 5 man engine then first step is 2 firefighters force the doors for the garage doors, 2nd step: Officer and firefighter with TIC and haligan/hook into the house and start searching for fire and life - no fire appears apparent but judging by the smoke from the roof there is some - but where.. If its going to be a while ofr the second engine in then I would consider deck gun operation on the garage from the chauffer to knock down the main body of fire. The 2 firefighters who forced the garage door now take a charged handline to the front door of the house and wait for orders from the Officer inside as to where he wants it. Hopefully by the time this is all  done help either by a additional engine or truck will be there.

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Permalink Reply by Michael McCarthy on January 10, 2012 at 11:54am

#2

Standard 5 man engine. First line into the garage - one firefighter -- should be able to get a good knock on it unless there is a car in the garage then its 2 firefighters. Officer and firefighter second handline in the front door and get water on the first floor fire.Going to have to do search for life and fire off the handline. I am sure there will be fire on the second floor hopefully there will be someone close to get the 3rd line to the second floor and someone can open the roof soon

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Permalink Reply by Michael McCarthy on January 10, 2012 at 12:03pm

#3

Totally defensive for the fire building. Appears to be vacant boarded up. Deck gun operation of that building through the 2nd floor front window. 2 -1/2 handlines to each exposure in the alleys and see if you can stop the exposure problems. Going to need help---ALOT of help--and need it quick. If known life hazard in either building then that takes the priority.

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Permalink Reply by Michael McCarthy on January 10, 2012 at 12:07pm

#4

Difficult fire - judging by the photo making sure you have enough hose line to make  the fire  on the upper floors.may be a concern if you use standard preconnects. First line to the fire on the second floor seond line protect the stairs.Remember to check the basement- could be balloon construction. Have alot of these types of buildings in my district. Going to need to get the roof opened ASAP.

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