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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on July 27, 2012 at 6:15pm

Moose,

Take a pill.  Nobody is turning it into a pissing match.  I think you're confusing firefighter with god and as such take offense when someone points out a FF is not a god.  Take a few deep breaths.  No one has pissed in anyone's cereal, no one has bitched out Don W. and NO one has said that what J. Blunk did was anything BUT heroic.  Only that it wasn't a LODD.  Get some perspective.

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Permalink Reply by Brian Mackie on July 27, 2012 at 8:56pm

LODD? Nope. He wasn't working. BUT.. that doesn't mean his fire department couldn't be part of the funeral! They can make it very nice, as I am sure they will. Such as sad case..when you look at those two beautiful children.. how proud they will someday be of their daddy. For now, god bless them and their mother. NOW THAT is a hero in my eyes!

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Permalink Reply by Don H Whitman on July 27, 2012 at 10:44pm

Ok everybody stop fighting or we are not stopping for ice cream on the way home..

First of all I do not feel as though I was treated poorly by anyone on this site.

I understand that LODD is an emotional issue, as we have all lost people in the line of duty.

We often feel that people do dishonor to true LODD's by bring up people who did not die in the line of duty.

I am so sorry if I offended anyone or violated any protocol by posting this on this site.

I just thought it was touching, in hindsight I should have posted this elsewhere on FH1.

I did not mean to start a legalistic dissertation over the classification of LODD. But it appears that this is an important issue. As the way we honor our fallen is important.

Rites and rituals are important in any culture and we are a sub-culture a great one. These postings are an important way which we honor our fallen and grieve them. If someone were to denigrate a funeral service we would be outraged. Perhaps my placing this man’s act of valor on this site somehow defamed someone else’s loss. If so I am so deeply sorry.

But on the other hand if someone is just trying to play Firehouse lawyer, shame on them because then that person is trashing the kid who saved his girlfriend.

By the way there were a total of three young men who saved lives that night by shielding others with their bodies.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on July 27, 2012 at 11:13pm

Don,

I will admit that I was the one who perhaps further spurred the issue here about the LODD status. My initial response was predominantly to Andy who stated...

 

"What a Hero!! As a FF we try to save lives and as Ive heard many times before, If you are a FF, you are a FF 24 hours a day!! He saved his girlfriends life in a emergency scene..... Is that a LODD? Probably should be...."

 

Of which I question if he truly understands of what constitutes a LODD and hence the reasoning for my response. I admit I also included your response about "24/7" and addressed that issue as well. (I disagree with such a concept). However, my reasons for going further into the aspect of the LODD is they really aren't as simplistic as just because one was a FF. I further disagree with the current parameters, especially the 24 hour after duty/call that defines a LODD because of the ease of argument....yet I submit that my stance becomes a Catch 22 when it comes to benefits.

 

When it comes down to LODD, I'm actually tired of the continuous finger pointing to the number of LODDs of FFs each year with the consistent rhetorical question of "how can we reduce the numbers" yet ironically see the pressure to almost make many FFs deaths a LODD. Whereas realistically it could be argued many such LODDs are more less a product of circumstance. Regardless the fact remains there are still parameters that do define a LODD and just being a FF doesn't nor shouldn't automatically define one because of the naure in which they died.

 

 

I will adamently agree with honoring the individual and involving FFs and even a dept (if affiliated) to be an integral part of the funeral. I have seen many FDs step up for a fallen member despite the fact that their death was not a LODD. I'm sure you would see FFs turning out to honor this person, and despite the issue on this individual thread, doesn't negate the sentiments I have for him, as well as those others who needlessly perished.

I personally don't agree with the singling out of one individual in such an event because of the nature of the incident. Sure the actions he made were significant, but so were many others and to me, that should be considered as well.

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Permalink Reply by Don H Whitman on July 28, 2012 at 1:51am

It’s all good, we work in a field with so many inherent dangers, and we deal with death and suffering every day, these issues involve so many emotions on so many different levels. 

This whole dialog has been good because it helps us to understand different perspectives. These discussion boards and web sites have become such an important part of our society, it affords us with divergent avenues to vent, rant, learn, mourn and heal.  But anyway it is all good.   

I see where you’re coming from regarding the way LODD's are figured, that too is Problematic. There needs to be a more realistic standard.

I have learned from this experience, maybe we all have and that important.  Thank Care and God bless    

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Permalink Reply by Moose on July 30, 2012 at 8:22am

Jack,

I do take pills.

I was merely commenting on the fact that someone turns this from a simple tribute to a man who sacrifices himself for a loved one, to that of does he need a LODD awarded...

I never confused firefighter with god, I take religion seriously and will ask you to refrain from taking senseless assumptions like that about me.  I never have or ever will think of us as "gods".  Take your own advice and share my pills. 

I have my own perspective, is it wrong simply because we do not share the same perspective??

Get an open mind.

Have a good day.

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Permalink Reply by Moose on July 30, 2012 at 8:28am

Don, I apologize to you as well.  I thought your post was being rediculed.  I saw a post paying tribute to a young man, with kids, who was a volunteer firefighter and laid down his life to save a loved one, and I didnt see the need for the argument that I was sure would escalate into the ever un-popular debate that rages here and at all other firefighting sites and ruins most of the good discussions.

 

I added to the argument and sidetracked the topic and for that I apologize.

Stay Safe.

Moose

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