The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Does your community really know what level of fire protection they're getting?
Often when there is a discussion here in FFN about proper/appropriate funding by a community, the level of training of a VFD, their equipment, PPE, training and response level (interior vs. exterior) there are a number of people who insist that, yes, a community IS aware of the level of fire protection offered by their fire department. Of course, those comments are never backed up with any proof but rather just offered in an (at best) anecdotal way.
Today in FFN is an interesting story, the results of a national survey of the BASIC awareness of a community's emergency preparedness. The story, "New Study Finds Many Americans Largely Unaware of Local Emergency ... provides some interesting (although perhaps incomplete) statistics on just how much people really know and understand about their community emergency preparedness and warning methods.
From the article; "More than half (57 percent) of those surveyed do not know when sirens in their area are tested, and 70 percent are unaware of the sounds and sirens associated with various warnings. In fact, more than one in four respondents did not know if their community has a warning siren system at all."
Only 47% would take action given a severe weather warning and 33% would require property damage or injury before they would care about public safety awareness. I particularly like this result; "...one in four respondents (28 percent) would require confirmation of severe weather, such as an actual tornado sighting, flood waters or a visible fire in order to take immediate action."
So if people by and large are indifferent to the emergency warnings (if there are any) given or made available to them in their community, what makes you so sure they know what kind of fire protection service your department offers? Based on the results of the aforementioned survey, I strongly suspect that those residents whom you think are aware of what kind of fire protection they have in their community are not only unaware but are madly indifferent to it. That is right up until the time they need you, and then they're in for a surprise.
So the question is: Does your community really know what level of fire protection they're getting?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
-
Reminds me of the age-old question "Are you ignorant or just indifferent?" Answer: "I don't know, and I don't care."
-
Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
-
Jack, I would wager a guess that indeed most residents of my community have little idea of what our agency can provide to the community it serves. Yes they see us running down the road and read about us in the paper but ideally most wont have a clue until they need us. We put much time into community education both by media and community events. Still the main question is: what can your fire department actually do and to what extent? That should be our drive and desire. To be all we can be to our communities to provide the services we are equipped to do. Thats trained and equipped! Your right again jack. Many provide an impression to their communities that they are there but what do they really provide and to what extent?
-
Permalink Reply by Moose on
-
A lot of people dont care about us...until we are needed, so they dont care what kind of protection they have. Its a poor attitude I know, but it happens. If I had a dollar for every time I responded to a call for help and heard "Wow, I didnt know you guys did this." I would be very well off right now.
We spend countless hours during fire prevention activities to get the message out to people, but do they realy care? No. We could go door to door...but no one would answer the door. We could send out mass mailings...but they would just be thrown out. We could have open houses...but conveniently no one would show up. We could call the residents...but no one would answer or return the call.
Its so easy to see one of these "Surveys" and take it as gospel, but the real question is...how do we know how accurate these surveys are? What area of the community are they asking these questions? Do they use all of the answers, or just the ones that make their survey have the desired results? Its easy for me to say that my community knows what type of protection they have because we are a small rural community, and we discuss things all the time at town board meetings and send out community letters to people informing them of new purchases, training goals and achievements, and things happening at the firehouse. I know for a fact that the people of our town know what type of protection they have...but that doesnt mean we have the best protection around, because we dont, and I am the captain and yet I freely admit that our service is average. We only have 11 interiors now that 3 of our probies passed their Firefighter One class, one engine, one engine/tanker, one medium rescue, one brush truch and an ambulance. They know about our troubles with gaining and keeping volunteers, and that there could be a time where they call for help and we wont get the help to respond, forcing us to call for our neighbors to help. They know that not everyone has the specialised training in Haz-Mat, or Rescue Ops but that we will respond to help anyway we can. But they never complain, and when it comes time to make the annual donation drive they give money.
We just had two major tropical storms last summer (Irene and Lee) back to back cause major flooding to half our county and make hundreds homeless. Our department immediately set up a shelter relief effort with donations of clothing, food and household items and cleaners to supply those who had nothing, and we ran this for 9 months, staffing the firehouse 6 days a week for 8 hours a day so people could come in and get what they needed. Our community knows what type of protection they are getting. Unfortunately its not what I would like it to be, but we are trying to make it better.
I speak for my department only and do not know what others are facing though, and can only hope they are the same.
-
Permalink Reply by andrew shapiro on
-
As a civilian who got into the PPE manufacturing business 7 years ago and now has a significant understanding of the fire service in North America, I can assure you that the general public is essentially clueless with regards to knowing "what level of fire protection they're getting".
Frankly, I don't even truly know what level there is in my community from our local VFD. Since we are a suburb of New York and the ranks of our local department include several extremely capable FDNY members and we just got a shiny new engine not long ago, I like to asssume (and hope) for the best. However, I do recall a young firefighter huffing and puffing while opening a hydrant at an incident near my house a few years ago. That was scary! The whole issue I find scary and I have actually thought about it often; about how clueless the general public is on this issue.
It is an issue which does not come up too much in public discourse unless of course some negative event occurs or local natural disaster. Here in New York disaster preparedness plays well for headlines and politics, but not day-to day preparedness. The politicians don't seem to want to go there.
I imagine the insurance companies must have some kind of rating system for community fire protection. Perhaps that would be a way to educate and inform the public...
-
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
-
I can assure you that the general public is essentially clueless with regards to knowing "what level of fire protection they're getting"..................
However, I do recall a young firefighter huffing and puffing while opening a hydrant at an incident near my house a few years ago. That was scary!
And I think we see a case in point. While I agree that the general public is clueless in regards to service level.....we also see the rebuttal about opening a hydrant.
While seemingly, opening a hydrant seems to be a meaningless orpaltry task, the reality is different. Pulling LDH, or multiple 2 1/2s is one aspect, then there is taking the cap off, flush the hydrant, hook up adapters, hook the line, and open the hydrant. Yeah realistically, most FFs would huff and puff doing this.......especially in a time crucial aspect. It really isn't as easy as it seems.
-
-
I would have to say I agree with my bother here from the east coast and agree in the sentiment in which he is relaying. We have seen, even on these forums, some, if not a particular, poster advocating how the public knows and understand their level of sevice. Like this article, and the sentiment portrayed, I would disagree. Most folks really do not have a clue about their level of service, in fact I would bet if one would ask most citizens, they would assume the same level of service. Difference being would be if the fire dept is paid or volunteer. Most would perhaps know, but as for understanding the service level, not so much.
-
Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
-
How could the community know for sure what level of protection they have in a volly community? That would all depend on how/IF the department trains. The IQ of those in the department. And how much the members (numbers unknown) themselves give a crap.
Before I became active in our volly FD, I had no idea of the level of protection or service that was provided for us in the neighborhood. I only found out after beginning my training and responding to calls. So, really, how could anyone else know. Because they watched you at their emergency? Nope, the last thing they are thinking is what level of protection they are getting. What they are thinking is hurry the hell up..what's taking so long.
In the jolly volly world, it's like Forrest Gump says"...like a box of chocolates....."
I don't believe our community knows what level of protection they will receive. Some do, but not most, no matter how much we are visible to them.
What would be a possible solution to this question? How could I/we have the community know what level of emergency protection/service they have, and what they can expect when I/we show up?
-
-
Very good article on this web-site related to this subject entitled: Rethinking Volunteer Firefighter Certification.
In part it says: "...70% of all firefighters in America are volunteers, which equates to 768,150 fire and emergency service responders. But what percentage of these providers is adequately trained and certified to perform the functions they’ve been assigned?
According to the NFPA’s Third Needs Assessment of the U.S. Fire Service, 46% of firefighters lack formal training, which indicates that they’re not certified."
And John I did not mean to insinuate that opening a hydrant is a meaningless task. On the contrary it is a crucial and vital task. No water, no supression... My point was in regards to firefighter fitness. As a PPE manufacturer I know all too well how taxing the extra weight is for even the most seemingly simple task. That is why firefighter fitness is so crucial to individual and department performance and of course to health related issues.
-
Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
-
Andrew,
In response to your comment, "I imagine the insurance companies must have some kind of rating system for community fire protection." There is in fact a rating system, it's called the ISO Public Protection Classification (PPC). The ISO (is a provider of data, underwriting, risk management and legal/regulatory services (with special focus on community fire-protection efforts and Building Code Effectiveness Evaluation) to property-casualty insurers and other clients.) evaluates (upon request of a department or community) the level of fire protection available, based on a number of variables which can be found here.
A fire department is rated from 1 (best) to 9. All factors being equal, the lower the ISO/PPC rating the (typically) lower the homeowner/business owner's insurance premium(s). I would say that, outside of local government and fire departments, most people have no idea that ISO exists much less rates -and may have rated their- fire departments.
A VFD that chooses not to request community funding, or fails (refuses) to attend local government meetings and request adequate funding may not be providing the best possible fire protection that a particular community may actually be able to afford. In bringing in ISO a department must open up all of its records, showing number of calls, number of responders, levels of training (and documentation to support those levels), SCBA/equipment maintenance records, to also include lengths of various hoses, pumping capability, water supply, hydrants, etc. In exposing themselves thusly, a *fiercely* independent volunteer fire department might find themselves on the carpet in the mayor/selectman's office, demanding an explaination and records of disbursement of funds. This can be a huge no no for those departments that pride themselves on supporting themselves only through fund raisers.
For those departments that claim their community is too poor to afford any (more) funding, oftentimes this translates into higher insurance premiums for the residents. In many cases, by greater funding of their fire department through increased taxes, a homeowner may see a significant decrease in their insurance premium, possibly enough to offset any increase in their property or fire district tax.
In another discussion in FFN I proposed that VFD's (for that matter, ALL FDs) be given a letter grade instead of a numerical rating. People more readily understand what a C or D letter grade means, as opposed to a 6 or 8 rating. Posting the letters on the apparatus and stations might be enough to open up eyes, but then it still boils down to public education/awareness. The public won't know what the letter or number means unless someone bothers to educate them, not just to the meaning of the grade, but what it means to them, their family and their property.
Of course, to many people the idea of raising taxes today is anathema, regardless of the fact that their insurance premiums could drop significantly. Pity the poor politician who tries to explain to his constituents that 'yes, while taxes in general would go up if we build a new station/hire more firefighters, in doing so your insurance premiums would drop, possibly enough to offset the tax increase.' People would be pounding the table, frothing at the mouth and outshouting their government leaders, demanding that there be no tax increase.
And FYI, for towns and cities that shut down stations and/or lay off firefighters, it can indeed affect that community's ISO rating, meaning that while it *looks* like the politicians are *saving money* in effect they may be costing the taxpayers more in premium increase. But then, people will just blame the insurance companies.
So the question remains unanswered: Does your community really know what level of fire protection they're getting?
P.s., a nod to WP for his initial comment; sadly all too true, all too often.
-
Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
-
The truth is most people believe because they have a fire station full of fire trucks and turn out gear they have adequate fire protection. Because perception is everything. They see the shiny trucks, packed with volunteers/POC FFs rushing off to the call and assume they have a trained, skilled, prepared fire department. Maybe they do, maybe those guys are well trained, certified, with sharply honed skills because they have an officer core that knows the reality of today. The citizens expect a quality service. But then again, maybe they don't have a quality fire department. Maybe they have a bunch of guys that joined figuring I'll put on my helmet and boots and spray some water and that will be good enough. Maybe they have a bunch of guys that want the t-shirt to impress the girls. Maybe they have a bunch of guys that either don't train, or for one reason or another can't do the actual job of firefighting. But HEY! They still look great riding out on the shiny fire truck in their impressive looking turn out gear.
The other sad reality is that sometimes you may end up with a skilled, well trained, quality response, and at other times the bumpkin brigade. That is the nature of many volly/POC FDs. To me that is why EVERYONE must be trained to do EVERYTHING, drive, pump, go interior, do ventilation, the whole nine yards. Because unless you have assigned duty crews you have no way of knowing who is going to respond.
-
-
Jack,
Excellent information, thanks. Went up on the ISO web-site and there is a wealth of data relevant to this subject. A brief look at state by state ratings in general showed an extremely wide array of results on their 1-10 "Public Protection Classification" rating scale.
Much of the final department rating is based on the equipment, access to water supply, pumping capabilities and the like though there seems to be considerable attention paid to training and response efficiencies.
More detailed ratings information on particular departments is NOT available to the public at large. The information is for insurance companies, fire departments and government. The public is instructed to contact their insurance company for more information which I am going to do to see what is in fact available. It seems unfortunate that this incredibly valuable information is not readily available to the public.
-
Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on
-
Jack, I must agree with you on this. I know even though we do a open house every year and at the school 2 times a year i know that most of the people in our fire district don't have a clue what we do. They see us out practicing every Monday or any other time i have a group of guys that want to go out and do something but for the most part most likely they don't care because they don't need us at that point. This i do know. We give 100% all the time. Our guys are mandated to do so much training and keep up on it if they don't they go on the inactive list no ifs and or buts. I can also tell you we hold a 3 classification and our records are available to anyone who wants to see them. Our property owners know they have not seen a increase in there fire taxes in over 5 years and the only reason they went up then was because we went from a 2 to a 3 after Cortland county quite toning us out. When they were toning us out we would show trucks on the road within a minute instead of 3- 4 minutes. The reason for the difference in time was by the time Cortland county 911 would contact Madison county 911 we were already at the fire house getting geared up and ready to roll. The ISO would only look at the times from Madison county because that is the county we are in. Just a little bit on how that works. We have neighboring departments that do not have a ISO rating just because they do not want to share their records and a couple for good reason for them not good for the people they serve though.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
