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"Canceled Enroute"
This is for opinions on volunteer companies/departments and there apparatus being canceled enroute routinely.
I was a volunteer Chief, I understand the safety concern of apparatus being on the road in both emergency and nonemergency mode. I used to cancel apparatus enroute often.
I am currently a black hat, and in a totally different department, and I am becoming discouraged quickly with being "canceled enroute" more times than not. I am second guessing my decisions I made with canceling units enroute for moral reasons.
Should the apparatus be allowed to continue to the scene with no lights and sirens?
Does it effect the moral of firefighters to be canceled more time than not?
If it does not sound like a "good call" do less people show up because of being canceled so much?
Is it really a safety hazard to have the apparatus on the road in nonemergency mode?
Let me know what you think!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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I'm with Jack on this call. Everybody enjoys the "adrenaline rushes," but... The more professional attitude is you go on the call no matter what and accept the outcome if it's not "a big one." How many times do you win at a roulette table? Anyone have a crystal ball? Realistically, few of the calls any department makes are going to be glamorous in any way. New members joining volunteer departments should be advised from the beginning that there will be many "dry runs" that will yield no results whatsoever and that's just the way it's gonna be. Hopefully those younger (or newer) guys will learn to accept that and appreciate those rare opportunities to exercise their skills. In my old age I usually just think to myself my life is thankfully easier when we get cancelled enroute. LOL
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Permalink Reply by Lt. Shane Peterson on
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In my opinion its better to get them coming and not need them, then need them there and having them not coming.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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If your personnel are only motivated by running "hot" with lights and sirens for an adreneline rush... then you have bigger issues.
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Permalink Reply by Capt./Chaplain Mike Petrosky on
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Should the apparatus be allowed to continue to the scene with no lights and sirens? If command cancels you, turn around and put yourself back in service.
Does it effect the moral of firefighters to be canceled more time than not? I beleive that yes, it can. If you are constantly cancelled enroute it can get to you mentally. But, you have to keep your head in the game and continue to respond as if each call may be the real thing.
If it does not sound like a "good call" do less people show up because of being canceled so much? We don't really have this problem at our station.
Is it really a safety hazard to have the apparatus on the road in nonemergency mode? Any time you are on the road with the rig it is a safety issue. You are driving/riding in a apparatus that is much larger and handles differently than a regular vehicle. As for the fuel issue, in this day and age with the economy like it is, why would you want to continue to a scene, after being cancelled nonetheless, to burn up your fuel and budget resources just to get to the scene and get a chewing from the command officer for continuing? My .02 worth.
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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I would guess that I get about 60% of calls canceled before I reach the station or scene. But every time the tones drop, I go.
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Permalink Reply by CHRIS PUYLARA on
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I read most of the replies to this...Marty,I too feel that way....and I see itwith who responds and who doesnt...yes we have people that pick and choose...OH and by the way.......VOLUNTEER does mean you CAN pick and choose..enough on that.....I feel this way.....let them keep coming code / non code whatever......it SHOWS the taxpayer....that their tax money is at work..ya I know some of ya disagree. I live in a military town, somewhat rural/suburban...alot of our volunteers are military for us it can be feast or famine member wise..right now we have good numbers....dont wanna lose what few bodies I do have...and yes we do get canceled just like everybody else (happened yesterday as a matter of fact)
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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"we burn our gas to get to the station"
Yes, you are correct. But, answer this.
Which vehicle gets the lower fuel mileage, your POV, or that apparatus? Who's vehicle overhead cost are higher, yours or the departments? I'm betting your cost of fuel and operation are cheaper.
Even volunteer departments have expenses which they need to control. While it may not seem like much for a single response, if the apparatus responds unnecessarily 80% of the time, that could add up to many thousands of dollars a year. Over the course of that year, that money could have been spent on up-grading nozzles, hose, bunker gear, or help pay for a TIC.
So from an administrative standpoint, it really does cost you and every member a lot more to roll apparatus that isn't needed, than just paying for your own gas.
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Permalink Reply by Forsaken Firefighter on
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We really do not burn to much fuel. Most of the time we respond in the brush/rescue trucks. Also if we go from one station to another for something related to the dept. we take one of the trucks so we do not use our own gas, that is the Chiefs ruling.... As for the equipment we get a lot donated from the city when the have more then they need. Granted I do see where you are coming from Oldman, I am just stating what I see go on, and for Derek, I personally respond to all calls a lot of the guys do not. Also Derek, it is funny you mention a cat in a tree.... we actually went to get a cat out of a tree about a month ago lol
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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Not tying to poke the tiger here, but it was never said that a volly CAN'T pick and choose calls. You are absolutely right that we vollies have that option. For me, personally, I just want to know WHY some will pick and choose the calls they respond to.
KSHF
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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When my pager goes off I go.It doesn't matter because you just never know what's going on.If you get called to automatic alarm and someone calls the alarm company to cancel you we still send a truck because you never know if maybe it's someone that wants the place to go right up in smoke.Anything could happen.If the first run truck gets to the scene and sees something then he can call the rest but we all still head to the hall.
You could also get a second call while the first run is out and you have guys there to go to it that has happened several times to us.And unless you talk to everyone on the department everyday what if you get the guys who choose not to come and not enough guys show up it won't look good on your department.You always going to have the pickers and chosers unfortunatly so we have to remember that if you chose to be a fireman than you chose to go to calls for better or worse.
As for cancelling units on route.If your pumper shows up and it's something that one hoseline can take care of why have units all over the place they can be better utilized by heading back to the station to cover the area incase of emergency #2 if it happens.Nothing to get upset about.
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Permalink Reply by FF Nick on
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Why was a brush truck first on scene? BS call or not, Class A pumpers respond to alarms. Brush truck to me is a 4x4 pickup with a skid, so if yours is different then I apologize. Brush trucks are second response vehicles and should respond only after a Class A has went en route. Only if it is a wildland call as well. 250 gallons of water isn't getting you anywhere on a working structure.
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If you don't need/want me there, then by all means I don't want to be there. Being canceled en route comes with the job, like it or not. If your morale gets its feelings hurt by being canceled, you need to rethink some priorities. You're in the fire service to do just that... provide a service. If service is not needed, cut code and return to the station. No questions asked, no piss poor attitudes, no "Well I just won't go to next one". Trust me, as long as there is houses, cars, trees, fire engines, buckets, and horse drawn carts there is going to be fire. You can't make it to all of them but I promise there will be plenty that you will.
What's the difference in being canceled en route versus arriving on scene and not being needed? Someone obviously has the info needed to determine a response is no longer needed or should be downgraded. (dispatch, chief, authority having jurisdiction) Does it make one feel better they made it all the way?
"Being a volunteer getting to pick and choose" - That's a WHOLE 'nother can of worms to me. I'd probably run out of typing room.
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