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Bin Laden's Death. How do you feel about it?
Bin Laden's Death.. how do you feel about and what are some of your thoughts on everything that is happing?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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On September 16, 2001, Osama Bin Laden released a video denying all connections to 9/11 and all attacks on U.S Soil.
Well that certainly must be the truth then, after all, he released a video denying responsibility.
Link to the video?
Various FDNY members including HAZMAT specialists & bomb experts reported "There are bombs at the foundations of both towers"
Link to this claim?
...testified there were bombs in the towers...
Link to testimony; congressional?
I would believe that a jetliner crashed into a Pentagon, the amount of damaged to the four sided squirrel cage is that of a plane crash.
The pentagon is a FIVE sided "squirrel cage." It's why it's called the "Pentagon."
Interestingly, of all the conspiracy theories, the crash into the pentagon is usually held up as proof of some kind of theory because it's claimed that there was insufficient damage, and wreakage, to have been done by a fully loaded/fueled airliner. But then, perhaps you subscribe to a somewhat reformed conspiracy.
I only believe that the World Trade Center is a conspiracy and happened another way.
You're welcome to believe as you wish but, when you make these kind of statements, both as a foreign national and a "young" adult (18 y/o), without including ANY links or references, you don't really come off as a credible person.
There are probably MORE links to discrediting the "formal" version of 9/11 than those verifying it, but that alone is not at all conclusive.
If you want to question the U.S. government's actions, agendas and other reasons for wanting to attack, or letting us be attacked, then you should likewise be questioning the motives of those that claim governmental conspiracy(ies). Otherwise, you've only just picked a side based on the fact you like the color of their uniform better.
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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Ermn, I only believe that the World Trade Center is a conspiracy and happened another way.
So those hundreds if not thousands of eyewitnesses that saw the planes flying into the WTC were all on acid? Or it was a hologram?
And all those videos are "doctored", you know, the multiple videos that show 2 airliners fly into each tower?
And the hole in Pennsylvania is a sinkhole, right?
The phone calls from passengers on Flight 83 that stated their plane had been hijacked and they were going to do something about, those were all carefully constructed lies from the victims' survivors?
Roge-O
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No said proof exists to begin with.
I've read the claims that the FBI didn't have enough solid (according to our laws) evidence to link him to 9/11. That may in fact be true, and while the FBI may visit other nations to gather information or evidence of crimes perpetrated in the U.S. they are tasked with investigating crimes of a federal nature, in the U.S., which is their sole jurisdiction. Evidence may exist that may not meet the criteria of our legal system, either for an indictment or as to how is was collected.
and "proof" that he's actually dead?
1- Who should I believe: the President of my country or; and 18 year old Australian?
2- Are you channeling Trump and requesting the long form death certificate?
3- Why would you feel that a professor from a major university should be the one to verify obl was actually killed? And could he or she be a Professor of English Literature?
4- Which major University would satisfy you that it still wasn't part of a conspiracy?
5- DNA comparisons were made and found to be a 99.9% match. "Seems" conclusive.
6- Why would obl be claimed to be killed only now, and not 1 year ago, or 4 years ago?
7- Why bother to make a false claim? It could so easily be refuted by a video from obl stating that the Seal Team VI attack did NOT kill him (he would have to include relevant, publicly known information.
8- If you don't believe the news reports (or the President of the U.S.) why wouldn't you then automatically assume that the Seal Team video would be either doctored or false?
9- So do you then feel that al quaida has been wrongly blamed in attacks on the WTC, embassies, Navy ships, other attempts inside the U.S., against U.S. interests, in Spain, Britain and other countries all as a result of the U.S. government?
See...once you choose to believe in conspiracies, they abound and no amount of evidence to the contrary, or logic, will appeal to you.
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Just checked about a dozen of these "proofs" that bombs were there.
I found 2 references to bombs and about the same to explosives. And all of them said something to the effect "We thought a bomb went off" or "It sounded like explosives". Along those lines.
I didn't find any specific references to seeing bombs planted around the buildings (or explosives).
I used the word bomb and explosives as search terms.
I made sure to hit the chiefs\commishes as well as a bunch of the firefighter reports.
Try again Tyler. I'm up for it. Or better yet, maybe you could find the exact link that shows where these guys said they saw bombs.
As for the age thing, it is obvious you haven't been brought up very well, as you don't respect your elders. What it has to do with the discussion is experience and perspective. Something an 18 YO has precious little of. I know I knew everything when I was 18, then as I got older, I realized how little I really did know.
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Does it matter that he admitted to it?
On September 16, 2001, Osama Bin Laden released a video denying all connections to 9/11 and all attacks on U.S Soil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_bin_Laden_video
The world didn't end in 2001 Tyler. Keep up with history.
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It's amazingly arrogant on your part that I'm the one that's delusional and misconceived.
My being older has nothing to do with my being right. Only that I don't jump to wild conclusions in the face of overwhelming evidence.
From here - http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRA... the following:
And while I was still in that
immediate area, the south tower, 2 World Trade Center,
there was what appeared to be at first an explosion.
It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all
four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then
there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could
see the beginning of the collapse.
This has been explained many times, as the result of the weakening of the steel structure from the excessive heat, with the upper floors pancaking down.
From here - http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRA... Page 8:
THEN THE BUILDING POPPED LOWER THAN THE
FIRE WHICH I LEARNED WAS I GUESS THE AVIATION FUEL
FELL INTO THE PIT AND WHATEVER FLOOR IT FELL ON HEATED
UP REALLY BAD AND THATS WHY IT POPPED AT THAT FLOOR
THATS THE RUMOR HEARD BUT IT SEEMED LIKE I WAS
GOING OH MY GOD THERE IS A SECONDARY DEVICE BECAUSE
THE WAY THE BUILDING POPPED I THOUGHT IT WAS AN
EXPLOSION
Have you noted that the comments are based on what the observer thought or how it first appeared to them? This was an entirely unknown type of incident and observers were attempting to identify or make sense of it.
There are lot of comments from firemen that day reporting explosions, feeling and hearing them. Yet everyone was so distracted, confused and panicked that what they were hearing and seeing were most likely the results of the crashes, fires, subsequent fuel explosions and collapses. All of these comments (and conclusions) are found on 911lies and whatreallyhappened. They are conclusions made by the authors of those websites and again, I ask that you consider what THEIR motivations are.
It's easy to stand outside of the U.S., not having been profoundly affected by the events of 9/11 and finding conspiracy theories to be more attractive than the accepted facts.
This may in fact be due to your young age, distance and other contributing factors. I am NOT attacking you, simply trying to make sense out of why an very young adult would be not only so closed minded about the events of 9/11 but equally so arrogant. If you choose to see this as a personal attack, it is not, but then, that hasn't stopped you from assuming that in the past.
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I too searched 9 of the lins, for bomb, bombs, explosives, explosion. Eight produced results for 'explosion', as in 'I heard an explosion', 'It sounded like an explosion,' etc.
'I thought,' 'It appeared,' 'Like...' 'It seemed...'
All certainly understandable given the events of that morning.
The circumstances of the two planes flying into the towers; subsequent explosions (from impact, fuel), the heat weakening the steel and the weight of the upper structure causing a pancake collapse has been documented through computer modeling and engineering studies.
Certain data and facts are cherry picked to bolster arguments for planned demolition.
One final thought: Why fly (or allow to be flown) aircraft into the towers, which are already loaded with explosives? Why not just wire the basements with enough explosives to take them both down and STILL blame terrorists? It's certainly no less conceivable than the prevailing conspiracy theories, simpler in design and at least as easy to accomplish as wiring all floors of both towers and then flying remote controlled lookalike commercial aircraft.
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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I do not rejoice in his death, but I just hope its a step in the right direction. It doesn't bring back all who lost their lives; Americans, Canadians, British or Muslim, but perhaps it will slow this roller coaster down.
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Tyler, I'm sorry, but if you were my 18 y/o, you would be getting a swift lesson in deducing information from the internet, not to mention speaking politely to others (and spelling and grammar).
Your disrespect is unbelievable!
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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I love it when you talk like that. What are you wearing?
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I looked at a couple of the links; again it's speculation on the part of the "witnesses" that there were explosions, sounded like explosions, may have been a van packed with explosives, FBI working theory, et. al.
Witnesses are consistent in their explanations that certain events appeared, or were like, something else they had seen or heard.
This is still little more than people trying to explain what they heard or saw that day. In fact, it bears a strong resemblance to the conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination of JFK. Recordings of that day, 'gunshots', photos of the grassy knoll, timing of various events all fed (and continue to feed) into various theories.
There are claims that spectroscopic evidence of explosive residue was found on steel structures suggesting planned demolition, yet nobody has ever bothered to explain how these devices could have been planted unseen, undetected. Only that they were there.
You dare insult me...
LOL ROFL What a prissy little thing you are, and with your barely restrained rage you must be a right pleasure to be around.
Just because you're a Captain
Yes, just exactly because he IS a captain, as opposed to a retained (Aussie for volunteer) probie know-it-all.
(Which isn't exactly hard to achieve, ranking up these days are quite easy)...
Wow, your arrogance knows no end. How the hell do you know what it takes to be a Captain in a paid department, much less for one in the U.S.? Clearly you speaketh from your rectum.
twenty years on the job.... doesn't mean jackshit.
It means a hell of a lot to me, and to a whole lot of other people, on this forum and, more importantly, in fire departments.
still be a complete misconceived moron.
And....the personal attack is complete. Good lad. Now put your toy fire truck in the toy box, put your jammies on and go to bed.
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You dare insult me by claiming you are better and wiser when it comes to information? Or that I haven't been brought up better? Just because you're a Captain (Which isn't exactly hard to achieve, ranking up these days are quite easy) and have twenty years on the job.... doesn't mean jackshit. You can be 72, ex Chief of LAFD since you were 25 and still be a complete misconceived moron. Your experience and perspective has nothing to do with this argument and what people witnessed.
I didn't insult you anymore than I insulted myself. When I was 18 I thought I knew everything, I was wrong, very wrong. As I matured, I realized how wrong I was.
Also, it is an undeniable fact that age 18 you don't have the perspective and experience that a 19 YO has, or a 30 YO or a 100 YO.
That's a fact, not an insult. Not sure why anyone would even take it that way, although I can guess.
As for my "rank", you're correct, it matters nothing. Personally, I would rather just be a peon fireman because I have enough responsibilities owning and operating my own business. But, since my department has a lot of younger fireman without much experience, I thought it reasonable to apply because my experience (which, coincidentally comes from being older) could be used to guide probies. In all honesty, I would rather not be an officer. But I would like even less being officered by someone with 2 years of experience with 1 or 2 fires under his belt.
You may also remember (or maybe not because you were only 8 years old) that there were rumors flying about another plane headed for NY, the White House, the Capitol, some building in Pittsburgh; the ATC had no idea how many planes were missing and any other number of rumors going around at that time. So someone stating there was a bomb does not mean he saw it, as you said they did. You stated there were numerous reports of bombs\explosives eyewitnessed by FDNY members. None of those links have accounts, under oath, that bombs were seen.
You just aren't getting it, though, so unless you can come up with some conclusive proof that someone actually witnessed a bomb as you stated I am finished.
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