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Bad Call
Yesterday while on duty i ran a call on a 11 year old girl that had hung herself from a tree. Did everything i could to try and revive her but she was in the tree to long. What upset me the most was i cant understand why a 11 year old would want to do something like that. No to mention that i could not save her.i have never had a call affect me, and i have run on some really bad ones, but that one did. Would appericiate if you guys could say a prayer for the girl and her family.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Much as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with WestPhilly. We're told that certain events are going to 'affect' us and,to ensure that it does, a CISM team is brought in that tells us that we have been affected. At which point people find themselves 'affected'. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
As lame as this is going to sound (and contrary to most of what everyone else is saying), Stop Thinking About It. It's not a physical injury, it's not physically there but the more you continue to relive and review it, the more it's going to take over your life.
And frankly most everyone here is just reinforcing that yes, you do feel bad, yes, you should feel bad and yes, you will continue to feel bad until you get "professional" help. How about instead listening to the people that tell you that you are okay, you are fine, it was no big deal and it's just part of the job. I know it's not all that politically correct or warm and fuzzy but not all of us are, at least not all of the time.
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Permalink Reply by Avery Dale on
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Whenever we come back from a bad call, any call actually, we always sit around at the station & talk about it. We mostly discuss the call in general, anything we could have or should have done different, any problems or concerns, etc. I have found that after a call talking it out with your brother's & sister's in a toned down environment is often a great stress reliever. If that is not enough there are services available such as a debriefing team or counselors. If you are troubled in the least little way about a call I highly recomend you seek help. I have seen the most veteran EMT's & firefighters have serious breakdowns because they kept it all inside. Even the one's who said "it's not that bad". If a call bothers you in the least amount, find a way to get it out.
I have been around fire & EMS my entire life. I have seen things that would give most people nightmares for a lifetime. Fortunatly, I have not yet came across "the call" that will haunt me. I have however, sat on the tailgate of a truck or at the station for hours at time holding a grown man as he cried on my shoulder. I only hope that if & when I answer "the call" someone will be there for me.
There is no way to truley know why anyone does anything, you may never know why something happened the way it did. All you can really do is answer the call & perform your duties to the best of your abilities. Do what you are trained to do & keep your faith strong. Blake you are in my prayers as well as the child's family & any of your brothers who may be sharing your pain.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I have to agree to disagree with you and Philly, not everyone is wired the same. I agree that not everyone needs CISD, why because NOT everyone has the same background, and such.
What I do disagree on is the CISD is not supposed to tell you that you have been"affected" by what you have been through. IMO those were poorly run CISD's. A good CISD is run to just talk about the call, (in a non critique manner) and a good moderator will identify who is troubled from this incident by his or her body language, demeanor and mannerisms. CISD's run the gammet from one person crying out loud while speaking; to others who were not affected by the incident at all. They should conclude with if anyone has difficulty sleeping, eating, drinking, sadness, emotional outbursts, anger, frustration, mood swings or challenges in the future.... that they may need additional help. There may be an underlying life event for one individual which is unrelated to this incident that is now RE-LIVED from a trigger.
Maybe this person has an underlying issue with a childhood event / death... who knows, but saying suck it up is an old school thing to say. Cops love to sit at the bar and suck it up after all the gruesome things they see as well, ever wonder why the suicide rate is so high?
Not everyone is going to be able to "suck it up", otherwise when you find a guy hanging from a rope or wrapped around a tree who attempted to keep it all in, then are you going to say, wow maybe we should have done something for that guy.
It's called being a leader and taking care of your men, even if it requires individual attention.
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FETC,
Obviously everyone is wired differently but regardless, there are only two options in dealing with an incident; either it bothers you or it doesn't. Much of what bothers people is, in my opinion a function of what everyone around them is doing. If a group of people blow it off as not important or not a big deal then most people will likewise see it that way. If, on the other hand the group decides that it is important then that will be the common group response. It's the power of suggestion, the placebo effect.
Maybe what's needed is for people to realize that group dynamics, more than individual response, can determine who is affected and how. Sitting together with a group of people who all feel they have been 'affected' is going to reinforce that feeling. Convince yourself that you are or are going to be affected and you will be. Tell yourself that shit happens, it's part of the job, not the first time-won't be the last time and it becomes clear that it's really no different than the wrecker driver hooking up wrecked cars. I don't think he gets all emotional if he hooks a totaled, brand new Ferrari or an antique classic '63 'vette.
I'm not saying that individuals aren't or won't be affected; one would have to be a misanthrope not to be moved even a little by a tragic incident. I think that is a very human response. But maybe people need to be reminded that these things are going to occur, rarely or frequently and they should be prepared for it. It's normal to say 'damn, that's a shame,' and then move on, not so normal to say, 'oh no, how horrible, I don't know if I can go on from here' and then continue to dwell on it.
People need to be taught how to manage their emotions in pretty much the same way they are taught how to manage their air.
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Permalink Reply by Blake Sexton on
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We had a meeting yesterday on shift about the incident . Some more info has come out about why she did this . A note was found in her back pack basically saying that a teacher at her school was giving her a really hard time not sure the extent of the abuse but it was obviously enough to kill herself. I know alot of FireFighters like to joke and cut up afters calls about the patient involved (man did you see the soup bowl in the top of that guys head) i think thats just the way they deal with some of the calls with humor. Im not gonna lie i do it on certain calls also but i also have a more serious side to different calls. I show respect to that person dead or alive by saying a prayer for that person and getting others to pray for them. I dont want u guys getting this confused or some saying that its weakness because this is not the case. I do not by any means let the calls affect me emotionally. I might ask why this or why that or dont understand what goes through peoples head these days cause i dont only god does. Just wanted to get that straight.
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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Much as I hate to admit it, I have to say I agree with Jack when he agrees with me. (And I meant to include the self-fulfilling prophecy thing, but somehow forgot it).
FETC,
I think you're missing my point. Of course not everyone is wired the same. Not everyone is physically able to do this job. Not everyone is intellectually able to do this job. And not everyone is emotionally able to do this job. My belief is that the vast majority of people who say they are "affected" (whatever that means) are not really affected at all. They are simply "giving the answer" they believe is expected. I also believe that of the very small percentage of people who legitimately experience negative feelings from a call, the vast majority of them should probably seek another line of work after seeking whatever emotional help they need. They are probably no more suited to the job than one who isn't physically or intellectually suited to the job.
I know that CISD is not supposed to tell you you've been affected by something. I'm saying the fact that CISD has been activated "signals" to all that something happened that should probably be affecting them. It's contributes to the self-fulfilling prophecy Jack had alluded to.
Did you read Avery Dale's post? He's the 26 y/o Chief of Department in (as Vincent LaGuardia Gambini would so eloquently put it) Ala-fuckin-bama, who's "...been around fire & EMS (his) entire life." (I figure I made my first 3rd floor hallway when he was still sucking his thumb). According to him, he's "...seen things that would give most people nightmares for a lifetime." He actually believes that shit, no doubt in my mind. I can't imagine what it was that moved to tears for hours the grown man he was holding on the tailgate of his truck. The only times I've seen firemen cry were when they were retiring after 30 or 40 years doing this "emotionally crushing" job and couldn't bear to leave it. I've seen them get a little misty when, after many years at the busiest stations, they knew they couldn't continue at that pace anymore and had to transfer to a less active station.
Why is my experience in a very big and active department so vastly different from what I'm reading about here on FFN? Could it be that maybe, just maybe, I'm a little more grounded in reality? A little more honest with myself? A little less impressed with myself that I do this "gut-wrenching" job that would give most people nightmares for life?
Come on, now. If you think you need CISD, you probably don't. If you actually do need it, you might have some serious adjustment issues that are probably not compatible with being a firefighter.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Ellis on
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I will pray for her and you my brother.
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Permalink Reply by Firewriter on
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Good point Roy!!
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Thank you, Justin - beautifully done!
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Avery, great response!
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Permalink Reply by Michael McCarthy on
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Every person deals with situtations differently. With experience each person knows what they deal with well and what they dont. Obviously senseless pediatric deaths are the difficult to deal with. Your training and experience will guide you on the scene of the incident but its after the incident that can be the hardest. If you are a parent it may be even harder or easier depending on how you are wired or the nature of the incident. I have always fealt that the best way you deal with it is by discussing it with either the crew that was with you or a member of your own family. Questions asked should be " What happened ? What can we have done (if anything?) to make it better? If it were to happen again 5 minutes from now what would be done different?" The next question is a self check question - "can I handle this?" Thats got to be a pretty clear cut answer after a while. My self check has always been - did my training help me? - did my experience help me? and finally did I do the best I could?" The last answer is a question that has to be answered between you and the lord above. As tragic as it may seem to me thats the most important question when the whole incident is reviewed. As long as you TRULY believe you did the best you could do, than you can make it through it with time. But you have to believe that in your heart.
God bless.
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An old adage, "Laughter is the best medicine". While on a call, you see some bad stuff. Back at the station, you - or someone else - may remember something totally bizarre your brain stored away for future usage, such as, "man, did you see the soup bowl in the top of that guys head". Laughter is a coping mechanism for the mind.
It is weakness showing you care? That is total BS!! It is called "humanity".
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