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Still disgusted !!!!!
I posted a thread on here several months back about our dispatching system here in our county. Our Fire Depts are trying to get an automatic page for mutual aid for structure fires and our sheriffs dept is buckin us on this. Were also trying to get them to dispatch Fire automaticly to vehicle accidents, which they refuse to do. As a matter of fact, our ambulance service has requested fire several times to respond and they say police officers on scene say its not needed. Who the hell are they to say this ??? They dont have fire training, and EMS requested it for scene safety on highways and potential fire hazard. Several times police have cancelled ambulance service also. We tried talking to the Sheriffs office, but keep getting the run around. Our EMS and Fire Dept protocals state that we will dispatch one another for calls for safety reasons. I dont know what else to do or who to talk to. Its like talking to a brick. Any suggestions??? Thanks for any info.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by kimmieflirts on
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I do not know where u are but in my town the police are not allowed to cancel fire department unless it is one of our chiefs ( two out of three are in town police officers ) although they can cancel the ambulance. It would be interesting to find out if your sheriff's officers are emts. If they are emts then they do have the legal right to cancel an ambulance, do to the fact that they are the bls on scene and from a legal point of view have the medical knowledge and authority to make emergency transport decisions. ( which in some cases is a good thing, who wants to go to take a pt who doesnt really need your services, and take an ambulance out of service when someone who's really sick may need. )
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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That's a little unproductive. Keep working at it. Fire is always dispatched to MVC's, if there's minimal damage and no injuries (or no serious injuries) we are cancelled or waved off. We aren't dispatched to confirmed minor fender benders. It's a good practice to be in, if there is a person trapped and you have to dispatch on arrival, that's a lot of extra time to wait, especially if you cannot treat well without extricating. Very frustrating for the paramedics as well. Also, the potential for fire is always there, coupled with entrapment, it's a serious tragedy and lawsuit waiting to happen.
We are now dispatched on a tiered response like our medicals for MVC's, calls are transferred between dispatches automatically (although there is still some lag time for some reason... another storey). We had a horrible MVC here that involved multiple fatalities. We used to be dispatched after the first arriving officer or paramedic was there and asked for us. Bad scene. Paramedics and police not knowing how to get to the victims out of the vehicle and having to wait for us, not to mention of the 6 people on scene, not one of them knew there were three more pt's in the back of the vehicle. Three of them died and people went on stress leave. It was pretty bad, worse for those waiting for our arrival I'm assuming. Being on scene and having all of the tools only adds to the eliment of control, not having what is needed leads to helplessness, it's hard to get that control back. You can be in a very bad situation, but if you have what you need, you just get to work.
Maybe find some examples such as this one, or potentials. Being on scene will only make life easier for police and paramedics when they need you. If they don't need you, you can clear. It's pretty simple.
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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It might also help to get a local rep from the EPA to pay them a visit. Does the SO take care of controlling fluid spills at the MVA's? They could face some serious fines for allowing fluid runoff to enter the local watershed.
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Permalink Reply by 144Truck on
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I guess the first question is, where are you located. (State). From your post I would asume that your county sheriff's agency provides all public safety dispatching for the area.
Obviously, the Sheriff sets the policy for law enforcement and the associated dispatch protocols that go along with that side of the operation. Who sets the fire policy.. local chiefs?...county fire associations?. Do the individual county agencies pay for dispatching services? If agencies pay for the service, they should have some say on operations...
Who has approached the Sheriff? I would assume that your Chief has requested the automatic mutual aid, simultaneous response to MVA's , etc.
My suggestion is that the Chiefs or Agency Heads in your county request a meeting with the Sheriff over these requested policy changes. As you serve the county, so does the sheriff. He or she is responsible to provide quality care and expected level of service to the residents.
Over time, we have also experienced issues with law enforcement because, quite frankly, we mess up traffic with our stuff. Education on our part, and making LE familiar with our needs has gone a long way toward cooperation. We also, at the county level, have an open dialog with the barracks commanders and local chiefs of police in our catchment area, as well as the district commander for the state police.
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Permalink Reply by VollyGuy on
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We do have automatic aid agreements with 3 other departments for structure fires (confirmed or not), fire alarms (residential or commercial) and we have automatic aid agreement with one department for interstate MVAs. There is no ifs ors or buts about it. Dispatch will tone 3 departments for any kind of structure fire and will tone 3 departments for fire alarms if requested by the responding fire department. We always request it.
Our police will not request fire apparatus for "Signal 1" accidents (minor) but will call us for any "Signal 2" MVAs and most MVAs on the interstate. If EMS is requesting us we roll as well.
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Permalink Reply by Bull on
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Our Sheriffs Dept does dispatch Fire and EMS. The Police officers are NOT medicaly trained, nor do they have any fire training. My Chief , myself as well as the other Chiefs have talked to the Sheriff. He said he will get it done. Guess what....its still not done. We do have an Emergency Managment Coordinator, but she is useless. Thats a whole another story. Our Fire and EMS protocal in our own dept states that if Ambulance is dispatched for a MVA, Fire will also be dispatched. Our EMT's have requested Fire at differant MVA's and dispatch refused to page out because Police said it not needed. 2 weeks ago, a nieghboring dept got paged for stand-by in their town for a possible fire @ the school there. Dispatch told them to stand-by @ the fire station because Police were checking it out. What crap is that ??? Im from Wi. Can I go over the counties head to someone??? Is there some kind of state code i need to know about ??? This is real frustrating to me. There are several safety issues with all of this.
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Permalink Reply by walt on
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In our county if we are dispatched for ambulance or a engine. A officer can cancle us, but if we have already left the station for the call we will respond. Have u ever noticed on house fires how the officers will break all the windows when they arrive. Just adding fuel to the fire we have talked and talked to the p.d. to have them stop. Its like talking to brick walls with no response for the police chief.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Bull -
That thread from a couple of months back had a number of good suggestions in it:
http://station.firefighternation.com/forum/topic/show?id=889755%3AT...
Some of them were:
I would try going through your county Emergency Management office. There appears to be an Emergency Management committee as part of your county Board of Supervisors, and this may be the best place to start.
I would think that all you would need is to get the agencies to agree to auto mutual aid, sign the letters of agreement, place them on file, go over it with the 911 Coordinator and enact it.
Your LEPC (local emergency planning committee) can enact the automatic mutual aid policy. This overrides the dispatcher protocal. If they don't comply to the LEPC standards, they will have to answer to your states EMA. This is back to basic NIMS. Interoperability is more than having dual banded radio's that can talk to Guam, it is being able to work alongside your fellow public servants without issue.
Your LEPC (local emergency planning committee) can enact the automatic mutual aid policy. This overrides the dispatcher protocal. If they don't comply to the LEPC standards, they will have to answer to your states EMA. This is back to basic NIMS. Interoperability is more than having dual banded radio's that can talk to Guam, it is being able to work alongside your fellow public servants without issue.
First, you need to get your Cheifs (or officers) from the other fire departments in your county (or area) and come up with something that you'd like to see changed and how you would like it changed (Be sure that if you go to them with a problem, that you have a solution). Then you need to call a meeting with the 911 Coordinator or 911 Director to discuss it. Make sure you find the Chief in your area that is the most out-spoken and will not mince words and have him/her be the primary spokesman for your group. Make sure they understand that its NOT A CHOICE and relay to them that it needs to be done for the safety of your firefighters, other public safety personnel, and the public.
How many of these things have been tried, or are in process? By posting a second time, you are bound to get some fresh opinions on this situation. However I'd like to know how the previous ideas were tried/received so that we can perhaps help a bit.
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Permalink Reply by Ni on
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... State Fire Marshal or one of his/her reps should be able to listen to your completes, and Force other agencies if he sees fit. Just a suggestion.
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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To me this just sounds like a accident our law suite waiting to happen ..it also sounds like you are already in a pissing match with PD that sucks and will always be a source of conflict .we have had pd try and get in the middle of our scenes but that cant be allowed to happen most PD here is happy to see us a police cruiser is no match for a semi on a mvc .......I still think a lot of police depts have that same ego that they are top dogs and no one is going to tell them anything its just to bad!!
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Joe....As mentioned before, our Emergency Coordinator doesnt do anything, her father-in-law is the County board supervisor, and that is how she got the job. I complained to the regional director about her, and they stated they had several complaints against her, but she meets the bare minimum standards to stay, and its a county hire, not state, so there hands are tied. All the Chiefs did sign all the paper work, and LEPC has never met. We are a backwoods...or backwards, county. But I would still like to make things right.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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Your county EMA director. Threaten with a grant cutoff and they will comply.
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