Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Oldman on July 20, 2008 at 7:24pm

First off, the legal disclaimer: I'm not an attorney, and I don't play one on TV either.

Now then, I caution you on the use of the term "pay". The Fair Labor and Standards and the IRS can come down pretty hard on departments who violate provisions of their codes. It's happened to one local department a couple of years ago. Even a points system in exchange for merchandise can violate certain provisions of the tax laws.

We "reimburse" our members for meals, laundry, or fuel for manning a shift at their station. Yes I know it's just a term used which could mean the same thing, but there are some differences. I urge everyone to check with your departments legal beagles for guidance.

For me, the incentive to do this job was reinforced recently.

We made a serious high speed collision between a mini van and 18 wheeler about a year ago. It took 45 minutes to extricate the elderly (90) female driver from the mini van. Needless to say this lady was BFU, (broke the f___ up). None of us thought the out come would be good. Fast forward 1 year, this lady walks from the parking lot to the apparatus bay to thank us for everything we did for her. She said she recalled most of the post impact incident, and how professional and calm we were, given the circumstances.

So you can have your money. There's not not enough gold in Ft Knox which would give any more incentive than seeing this lady walking with hardly a noticeable limp. I have many of stories like this over my lengthy career as a volunteer. "I volunteer to belong, the rest is mandatory".

Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on July 20, 2008 at 7:39pm

I'm with you on this one Oldman.....as the saying goes ..."No-one can make me do this....I AM A VOLUNTEER.." Stay safe and always keep the faith..... Paul

Permalink Reply by anne potter on July 20, 2008 at 8:21pm

wHEN YOU Vol for something there is some notion that you know what you are getting into and there is some part of notion that time willbe needed to this event ..so why do we think we are owed something or should be felt sorry for... I don't give my life up for my Dept. I do know when the siren goes off in the night I knew this was going to happen and this is what Isigned up for... People need to discuss with family members before joining things so family also knows what is expected of them and of you.

Permalink Reply by Rob Young on July 21, 2008 at 10:31am

I agree that we should know what we are getting into, and that we need to make sure our families understand as well. I would volunteer (am volunteering) without ever getting anything in return. I think for most of the people who make an effort to be active and involved, no incentive is needed. And for those who aren't already active, I question whether some incentive would help anyway, but my department was looking into incentives, so that is why I posted this question. I love being a firefighter, and helping others. I do it just because I love it.

Permalink Reply by James Copas on July 21, 2008 at 3:57pm

Paul, could you possibly go into a little more detail about the points system your department uses. We have been having a small problem with a few of our members not showing up lately. We are not looking for an incentive program per say. Mainly because we share the same view as you and some others here. We are not in this deal to be paid. The money that would be going to "incentives" is much better used elsewhere, like equipment and training. I would just like to hear a little more about the points system. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Permalink Reply by turk182 on July 21, 2008 at 4:42pm

We cannot afford to give incentives even if we wanted to, we raise all the money for operating cost, insurances, and gear replacement and truck up keep.

Our township gives us around $2,000.00 donation a year and that is the only help from them we get we earn the rest ourselves.

So if you are going to give incentives then you are going to have to make sure you have the income to cover the program.

But I still say if you give them any money them they should be considered paid!

Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on July 21, 2008 at 6:11pm

Well the goal is a minimum of 100 points...Most "active" members get that easily , in fact I had 460 last year. You get 5 points for a "special function"(working at dinners and the like)..You get 3 points for a "work detail" (usually 2 or 3 a month)...2 points for a call...and yes.. 3 points for training. If you are out on a call and another comes in then you get credit for both...or if you are working a "special function" dinner or whatever and a call comes in you get credit for both....We usually try and recognize those who meet their goals with a jacket or shirt or something but this isn't the rule. I think our average is 365 calls per year.....that includes both EMS and Fire related......Pretty simple......Stay safe Brother....and remember to Keep the Faith.....Paul

Permalink Reply by Barry Homyack on July 21, 2008 at 7:15pm

Our department gets what's called a clothing allowence . Ever year all firemen get a $500.00 check from the city for just being a (black hat) regular fireman then the amount goes up by rank all the way to the chief. it goes up in $25.00 intervals. Then our city has what they call low sap. This had to be voted on by the tax payers. Depending on how many years of service some has, he has to make a certain % of his calls. In doing so the city puts $1250. a year into a pension fund with an insurance company. The person tells the insurance company how he wants his money invested. No person cannot touch that money until after 5-years. This is good for the new fellas coming in the department. This is an incentave. Our 5 fire houses never had so many new people coming in to join as before. Most of N.J now has lo sap. And by the way this is all tax free money. No taxes of any kind come out of this money.

Permalink Reply by anne potter on July 22, 2008 at 7:10am

Then why want those people in. They will do a half a-- job and their heart is not in it.. they will lack in training therefore putting people at risk.. incentive yes like we do with the chips allow them to buy some equip for their time....I still believe the ones who are not active never had their hearts in it and therefore a hazard to the ones who train and want to be there... Also the economy is another big part and who can you blame for the guy with two jobs ..So there is always the difference between .. I don't want to, Then the guy who wants too,but I have two jobs and the family.. Tough world we live in.....

Permalink Reply by Rob Young on July 22, 2008 at 12:16pm

I don't think any of us fault the guys who are working two jobs to support their families. We all understand how hard it can be. I guess the issue is all the guys who could be there that choose not to come, not to get up and go to a call, not to go to even one training a month. I have been to fires with people who were not trained but thought they knew everything, I didn't like it at all, and in the past there have been people I wouldn't go into a fire with because I didn't know their skills because they never came to training, but would show up at calls all gung hoe with little clue. I try to go to any training I can, I know I can never learn too much to be a good firefighter. Apparently there are guys who don't think the same way. I personally would rather be on scene with a few guys I know well and trust than have a full company with only a few who are up to speed.

Permalink Reply by FF Nick on July 22, 2008 at 12:20pm

Right but what makes a volunteer department is people who VOLUNTEER. Not the people who say "it's a volunteer department you cant make me do anything" Turn your shit in and get the f*ck out. You filled out your application and it clearly states "Are you willing to give some of your free time to go on calls, attend meetings, organize functions? " It's quite simple, YES or NO. That line pisses me off to the max cause better than half our member were kicking that around. They have gear radios and pagers issued to them that someone else could be using and they might and I mean if we're LUCKY show up to one call a month. We avg 30-40 per month. Id rather have the same list of our continious 7 that show up rather that a roster of 35 wondering if anybodys gonna show up this time.

Permalink Reply by anne potter on July 22, 2008 at 8:41pm

Sometimes the guy with two job shows up more than the guy with none... too bad .. Volunteer is such a big word and people abuse it to their own meaning...

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