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Fire service/EMS ethics . . . .
I really am new to the site, but I am interested to find out what other people's thoughts are on Fire service/EMS ethics. . . .
Let me explain. . .
Currently I am a vol. FF here in MA, district 7. To be a FF in MA we are required to become NFPA FF I &II certified even on vol. departments. So those of us whom have been in EMS/FF service for a while are attending the required schooling.
In our class we have one individual whom has done nothing but try to undermine classmates, the instructors and even the course itself.
I recently had a discussion with her about this and she told me that she doesn't understand the need for any FF to learn basic operations of sprinkler systems, or how alarm sys work etc. She is also upset at the fact that she has been dressed down by a few instructors becuase she is having a hard time keeping up with the class work load and her full time job and she thinks she should be cut slack for it. Furthermore, she also is upset becuase she is having "equipment issues." See she is complaining that the rear brim on her "bucket" is too far back and when we conduct search and rescue drills she can't be on her knees and see forward becuase of her SCBA.
Now aside from the obvious issues this person has, I need to hear any opinions out there. I have told her that I think she is an idiot for thinking everyone is out to get her. She thinks she should be cut some slack becuase she is a woman, and I don't believe that in this profession that is acceptable. She believes that becuase she does not want to be a career FF that there is no reason why she be equally trained as the rest of us are, and she doesn't see any reason why she can't just repspond to a structural tone and hump hose while the rest of us go inside.
Anyone have any ideas on this? Am I the one off base here? Or is this person really difficult? Also, is this a common frame of mind? Have others run into this type of individual on there departments?
Let me explain. . .
Currently I am a vol. FF here in MA, district 7. To be a FF in MA we are required to become NFPA FF I &II certified even on vol. departments. So those of us whom have been in EMS/FF service for a while are attending the required schooling.
In our class we have one individual whom has done nothing but try to undermine classmates, the instructors and even the course itself.
I recently had a discussion with her about this and she told me that she doesn't understand the need for any FF to learn basic operations of sprinkler systems, or how alarm sys work etc. She is also upset at the fact that she has been dressed down by a few instructors becuase she is having a hard time keeping up with the class work load and her full time job and she thinks she should be cut slack for it. Furthermore, she also is upset becuase she is having "equipment issues." See she is complaining that the rear brim on her "bucket" is too far back and when we conduct search and rescue drills she can't be on her knees and see forward becuase of her SCBA.
Now aside from the obvious issues this person has, I need to hear any opinions out there. I have told her that I think she is an idiot for thinking everyone is out to get her. She thinks she should be cut some slack becuase she is a woman, and I don't believe that in this profession that is acceptable. She believes that becuase she does not want to be a career FF that there is no reason why she be equally trained as the rest of us are, and she doesn't see any reason why she can't just repspond to a structural tone and hump hose while the rest of us go inside.
Anyone have any ideas on this? Am I the one off base here? Or is this person really difficult? Also, is this a common frame of mind? Have others run into this type of individual on there departments?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tim on
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I do truly think that it's a sad plight in today's sociaty that people become aggressive instantly Siren. For some reason you have pent up aggression towards me. I have in no way implied that I know you, I am simply making an observation based on your . . . ."responses."
If you think I am whining or complaining then I appologise, that is not my intention. My intention is simply to find out how others have handled this situation after a lengthy frustrating run with the person in question. I grew up in a military household and therefore i usually dont accept crap excuses for problems that are easily solved. Siren you seen to be adept at pointing that aggression towards others but why dont you take a step back and look in the mirror?
At no point in my posts did I attack you or try to belittle you through sarcasim. You accuse me of whining, you imply in your original post that I was turning this into a gender issue, and you say I don't know you.
Well you're right, I don't know you, but you don't know me either so why do you act like such a child? I did notice that you did drop the gender issue and I appreciate that becuase this is not a gender issue.
Lastly since you have made your opinion clear, thats great, i hope we won't have to waste time reading YOUR complaints about "how DARE" I this and "don't put put words in your mouth" blah blah blah.
Personally, if you have to go to a dictionary to look up the meaning of somthing in order to help further your ARGUMENT then you might know know the true meaning of it. . . . and this is a disscusion not an argument.
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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Aw crap... you had some support (mixed anyway) and you had to go and say that... sigh... don't ask for suggestions if you aren't ready to hear all sides with the answers. That's upsetting.
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I think you missed the obvious (hilarious, by the way), THE FISH WAS TALKING!!! lol
"We were biting this morning Steve!!" hahaha... I love the Blue Fish!!
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Well I do appologise if there are those out there who think I am trying to slam them in public, See I thought this was an open forum where we could all discuss like adults. I am interested in others opinions, not the public slamings that others seems determined to bring. I didn't start this, "the divine miss J did" and just becuase I have only been on my department for a year, means nothing. I do recognise that in our field there are lots of people with type A personalities who have to make themselves feel and look important, but if you think I am off base in my toughts, then why not be an adult and simply say, "no I think you're off base, and here's is why . . ."
Spanner I do appologise to you and some others, but I was not the one who started the public slamings, here in this forum, this "divine miss J" did, I simply responded to them.
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maybe these guys could help you out with those questions... although, I don't think any of them could place a call!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skE2dq3cm0A
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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I have been watching this thread for a while, and thinking of a way I could respond. (and here goes)
First off a note for the poster Tim. The fire service is one of rich tradition and brotherhood/sisterhood. Although I do hear what you are saying when you express your distaste for this (female) individual, you need to realize it is NOT your job to be critical of this woman. You are in the same school she is in, and thats the basic levels of firefighting. (by no means do you qualify as a voice of experience) IF you were an instructor for this course and you had "ethics" you would see that this firefighter/traineee GOT the specialized attention to ensure she gets all the aspects of the topics you train on. Sometimes it takes a little extra to open the eyes and expand the horizons and realms of thought processes. It is NOT your job, or the job of any of the other trainees to be critical of this woman nor any other trainee that is in attendance, thats between the instructors and them. You feel you wouldn't want to work alongside her? Heres a hint and take this to heart. Everyone on the fire scene has a small job. It is all the firefighters doing the small jobs that makes a incident much easier to navigate through, and bring safely to a conclusion each time. Mass having the law requiring the minimal training to respond as a volunteer means she HAS to take those courses. (and I think she should) By no means does taking this class mean shes going to put on a pack and start dragging line with you on a primary attack. (she could be doing as she said working outside changing bottles, moving hose, and getting equipment) Notice again the tasks all seem menial, yet all are critical aspects of scene mitigation. Look outside the box, not everyone who walks through the door to join a fire department will be a "strap it on your back and get in there" type firefighter. Mind your P's and Q's and worry about number on in your training evolutions, and thats you. Worry about learning and not just reading and watching.
For the instructors of the course, (and I doubt they will read this but here goes anyway) you need to look outside the box as well. Some people need specialized attention to be sure they completely understand what they are learning. There is no greater feeling than graduating a class of students who COMPLETELY understand what you were teaching them, knowing they are fully trained to do the job.
If we turn people who are willing to volunteer their time away because they aren't interior firefighter's, we are going to be in a world of hurt. Don't compound the issue by tagging a female tag on it. Don't assume someone is playing a female wild card because their PPE and SCBA have issues working together. If shes issued a set of gear to train in, it probally hasn't been sized or fitted for her. Understand that not every fire department has the money to get everyone form fitted to PPE, and they have to make due with the equipment thay have. (so long as it is compliant) Understand that although she may not necessarily "get" whats shes learning, you nor any of the other trainee's taking the course are by no means seasoned firefighters and you each will stumble upon uncomfortable gear, and will complain about some training you will receive someday. (and yet I feel you won't make the connection when this occurs)
Represent the traditions of our beloved fire service, and instead of looking to sound off at someones deficiencies, concentrate on your own deficiancies and correct them.
You may feel this is a tad scathing, and in a sense I guess it is. Welcome to the world of firefighting, the world where you will NEVER know it all, NEVER learn it all, and will always have to train and adapt your though process to keep up with the ever changing ways we do the job.
Be well and stay safe.
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You know I missed the fish response and had to go "fishing" to find it. Great commercial. (you see the deer one? couldn't believe they drop an f bomb)
How did it reach the phone? Perhaps a flying fish, or rather an overachiever. :)
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Permalink Reply by Kimberly A Bownas on
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OK everyone else has responded and you know what, I just can't come up with one because it has all been said. Well maybe just a little something, basically if you are not willing to give a fellow firefighter a helping hand for what ever reason, then you should find someone in your class who can. Sometimes I think some are to quick to give up on others and make excuses were there should be none. We are all here for the same purpose no matter who you are. We need not forget that. Sometimes Senior firefighters have a better way of handleing a newbie. Sometimes it just takes a little nurturing and compassion that makes the difference. You don't always have to be a hard a$$. Strictly my opinion and you can either agree or disagree, makes no difference to me.
Be Safe.
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Cosgrove on
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I see it all the time. After a rude awakening in a live burn they are usualy more than happy to train more. I have taken a few firefighters into a burn room and give them a task or test to do before putting the fire out. This realy throws them for a loop. Now I will say that there is ALWAYS a safety line in place in the room and we do this as safely as possible. No one is any further in harms way than any other live burn. However when the flames get close and they can't answer you they freak out!
The rest just leave the fire service because its not for them, and thats fine. Lets face it, this job isn't for everyone. Now I hate to see people leave, I know my dept needs the help! But at what cost?
Is this person on your dept? If she is than you need to bring the problem up the chain of comand and have it delt with. I didn't want to learn a lot of stuff over the years but I know I'm a better firefighter for having learned it. Good luck with this, keep us posted -Matt
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She is on a different dept. all together, but I do have to go on mutual aid calls with this person sometimes, since we have certian equipment that her dept does not have.
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Just try to stay positive. I know its hard sometimes but it will be worth it in the end. Sometimes somepeople just want a little help and don't know how to ask for it. Or maybe she is just a pain in the a$$. In that case she will be gone under her own free will and most likely blame everyone else in the world for it. Either way, do what you can to help each other and keep the officers informed. This will be a lot more helpful than you will ever know. It's like I tell the members of my dept. I can't even try to fix something that I don't know is broken. -Matt
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thank you so much for your opinion your majesty; now i know next time not to offend your delicate sensabilities. I wasn't whining, just asking, it was you that felt the need to go off on a tirate. If you didnt like the posting simply say away from it. call it whatever you want your majesty and I am sure you will leave some little clever message here becuase you have to get the last word in; which is fine. I will make sure I refrane from posting here again i wouldn't want to offend you again. . . . . . .
thanks to those who did offer advice in an adult manor i will take it all to heart
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