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Ambulance crew as RIT
Does your department assign RIT to the ALS ambulance crew, and what are your thoughts on this practice?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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John,
See my response above. Firefighter/Paramedics are great, we have them here. But when they are assigned to an ambulance that shift, that is their assigned duty. Period. When they are assigned a shift where they are riding an Engine, then their primary duty is as a Firefighter.
Put the Medics in Rehab, where if they can do medical monitoring of Firefighters as they come out, and if they need to go into action as Medics they are ready to do so.
I'm not saying they need to just sit in the ambulance and watch, but keep them in a position where they are not being exhausted by the job, like the rest of the Firefighters and can immediately begin medical interventions as soon as the need arises. Like at Rehab.
Greenman
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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And around here in many cases the ambulance crew is also utilized as a firefighting crew and a second ambulance will be sent for EMS. Like I mentoned before it takes about 15 to 18 personnel on scene to mitigate a room and contents fire, this is not including EMS personnel. So it is quite possible that an ambulance crew may be utilized as a fire suppression crew, especially initially. A second ambulance can be sent for EMS issues.
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Roy,
Jacks of all trades, and Masters of none.
If it's me or my family member in a critical condition, I would much rather have dedicated, full time Medics treating them, rather then someone who has to constantly do the mental gear shift between two different disciplines.
I watch the Medics where I work and although everyone is certified to their appropriate level, there is a noticeable difference in the confidence and "smoothness" in which the "Medic Only" Medics do their jobs compared to the "Firefighter/Paramedics."
Greenman
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We usually have 8-12 personnel on scene for a typical one room and contents fire, not including the EMS unit. If the fire gets toned out a second time as a "working fire" or "Fully involved" we'll get a few more, but rarely between to city and county FDs will we have 20 personnel for event he biggest fire.
With only four ambulance in the county, and only two in our end (we're unique inthat you must leave the county, and go through another county, which is a 10 minutes drive running code, and then re-enter our county in order to get from one side to the other).
If one of our ambulances is already tied-up on a call when a structure comes in, our dispatcher automatically requests EMS mutual aid from the neighboring counties, so an Ambulance can be on standby at the fire and the rest of the county will still be covered for other calls.
Yes, our EMS crews are Firefighter/Medics, but not on the day they are riding the ambulance, that day they are Medics and they are at the Rehab location.
Greenman
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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Our county doesn't dispatch a basic and a paramedic ambulance on a structure fire until a working fire is called by the OC. By the time they get there the RIT team would be a heavy squad, truck or forth due engine crew.
Most of the time the ambulances are set up as a med station if someone is injuried or the RIT crew bring someone to them. Now our ambulances have SCBA on them but they don't have RIT equipment and not to be used for firefighting unless the crew was on the air and is dispatched to makeup maning for a dispatched engine, truck or squad. Most career station crews are madeup of a LT or Capt and 3 firefighters and any volunteer members depending on the station.
Some staions may ran everything on the call if they have maning but the county will only dispatch one fire suppression unit at a time from surrounding stations.
Take our station. We have a one in service engine, one engine reserved, a truck, brush unit and a basic ambulance. Most of the time 4 career personnel are on duty. If a auto accident or a medical call comes in the crew is spilt. If a brush fire comes in, 3 on the engine 1 drives the brush unit. If any volunteers are in the station then they will man the ambulance on a accident or the brush on a call or add to the crew on the engine or the truck with 2 personnel but nothing else will leave the station unless called for, so say the truck is called for then 2 engines, brush and ambulance will sit if there is or is not a crew.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Danzer on
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I have seen this same problem in many places as well. Where I am the is not an abundance of good paramedics at any one service or department. You have handful of good medics in all places. So it really just makes it a crap shoot as what you will get for medical attention when you dial 911 in the whole metro area.
Not to say any of them are bad, just some are way better than others.
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Permalink Reply by allen bird on
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In my little corner of the world we have two ambulance svc. and they are privately owned, and we may or may not have one show up on a fire scene. Generally they are pretty good at showing up. When they were subsidised by the County it was required, they arnt now.
All are firefighters are minimum BEC, Most are EMT-I, with a few Paragods thrown in.
But we run first responder to all medicals in the city.
As far as RIT thats the fire dept. business.
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They are Firefighters first and paramedics second. They are equipped with as many hand tools as the average Eng Co and SCBA's. with insufficient manppower, it is not uncommon for the ALS medic crews to arrive and have to fill out an Engine or Truck crew as well.
Pretty much the same thing here Shareef.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Bogus. Your "..paramedics are there for is to play hero..." comment is complete B.S. In fact, it is two logical fallacies in one. It's a straw man, because I said no such thing - you did, and it's putting words in my mouth. Secondly, it's a false dilemma, because there are other options than either putting the EMS crew on RIT or "paramedics playing hero".
Then there are the places where the EMS crews don't even have turnout gear.
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Regardless, if you don't have an ambulance crew assigned to Rehab/Medical duties, then you have an important assignment that is not covered.
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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In my imperfect world I've thrown ladders with other drivers and EMS crews and had them pull lines. When the ish hits the fan I'm not having people stand around when I need them. In the first 5-10 minutes many times its all hands on deck.
But an EMS crew should be part of the RIT/FAST teams. Not activitly part of the rescue but ready when the victim comes out. They need to be aware of whats going on. I've seen too many EMS crews sitting in a nice warm ambulance or talking to the crowd across the street.
Also think how many times we train with mutual aid companies but never with Paramedics or separate EMS crews.
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"They are Firefighters first and paramedics second."
That's a problem. If you do both jobs, there should be equal value in both assignments. There should be no "one first, the other second".
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